[nekthen]

Its a pass from me. Reverse the vulnerability and I go with 3N. 1 for the score and 2 partner knows better than to make a light dbl red v green. East can have anything from a 4333 12 count to an 18 count with KQJTxxx. If 3N makes we get more for beating 1D and if 3N is down, we may yet make a plus against 1D

[FelicityR]

Thank you all for your replies and insights. For your information I passed the double - and yes, I do realise that it is the wrong type of hand to take this action - but I thought that maybe 3NT by us was possibly a doomed contract, and even if it was makeable there was a good possibility to set 1♦x by two tricks.

On the actual board my partner and myself set it 3 tricks - it should have been just two - but partner had doubled on ♠KQ83 ♥643 ♦Q103 ♣AJ5(!)

[wank]

You 3nt bidders did spot the colours, right?

[Kaitlyn S]

SteveMoe, on 2017-April-26, 20:32, said:

1N=8-11
2N=12-14

2N.

Those are reasonable ranges opposite a 1-level overcall which could be pretty ilght, but opposite a takeout double which should show an opening hand (albeit counting shortness) ?

You can't convince me to bid less than game with 14 points when partner makes a takeout double. And while I could see a possible set if opener has 5 of the outstanding 8 diamonds, a good diamond lead, and we can't rattle off 9 winners, partner isn't going to raise 2NT on many hands on which 3NT is a good bet.

I bid 3NT although at these colors I have some admiration for those that want to defend 1Dx.

[RedSpawn]

Kaitlyn S, on 2017-April-27, 16:43, said:

Those are reasonable ranges opposite a 1-level overcall which could be pretty ilght, but opposite a takeout double which should show an opening hand (albeit counting shortness) ?

You can't convince me to bid less than game with 14 points when partner makes a takeout double. And while I could see a possible set if opener has 5 of the outstanding 8 diamonds, a good diamond lead, and we can't rattle off 9 winners, partner isn't going to raise 2NT on many hands on which 3NT is a good bet.

I bid 3NT although at these colors I have some admiration for those that want to defend 1Dx.

Agreed. This was a pick up game too so I am not confident that pick up partners make the best defenders until they prove themselves on a few boards.

Bid the 3NT as you can't afford to wait for the perfect "atmospheric" conditions to bid game. Trust that your partner has made a "disciplined" takeout double and take the choo-choo train to its final destination.

[GrahamJson]

I'm not sure why the poster thinks this is such an unusual hand; it looks fairly routine to me. The obvious bid is 3NT, but given the vulnerability I can see the attraction of passing. As it went three off clearly pass would have been my choice. If oppo weren't vulnerable I would choose 3NT.

[johnu]

MrAce, on 2017-April-26, 14:58, said:

Let me give you guys a secret about why this is a bidders game! Because opponents do not see your hands. Yes if opening leader has KQJTx(x) ♦ he has an easy lead. However he will also lead ♦ from KQJx. Will he lead ♦ from KJxxx on this auction vs 3 NT? Or will he know to lead small from KQT9x ? Because if he does not, your ♦ 8 may create a big problem for defense.

Are you guys seriously suggesting to invite when pd doubles and you hold 13 count with 2 Aces and a King? Seriously? What have you guys been playing all this years? You are not bidding a grandslam ffs! You are playing IMPs and you are bidding a very reasonable 3 NT. Yes I know it may go down but so what? Good luck at trying to stay in 2 NT and expect it to make exactly 8 tricks. Good luck with expecting pd to know when it is right to accept and when not. Oh and btw, they give a big bonus for playing games, such as 300 points instead of 50 for partscore NV and 500 instead of 50 vulnerable.

Since when did they start giving game bonuses for game contracts. Is this something new? Why has nobody written about this? What next, bonuses for making 12 or 13 tricks?

In case you are interested, there is a poll on Bridgewinners, http://bridgewinners...m-2-xe9q3lc5iw/

Currently,

2NT - 18 votes
3NT - 15 votes
2D - 4 votes
Pass- 7 votes

As you can see, 2NT is the leading vote getter, and you can make your own opinions on which voters have the most gravitas. I think 2NT and 3NT both have some excellent players who voted that way.

As I see it, the 3NT argument is:

1. I have 13 HCP
2. Partner made a takeout double
3. I have a sure diamond stopper
4. Suit contracts look unlikely
5. 3NT will usually have a good play
6. Bid 3NT.

The 2NT argument is:

1. I have 13 HCP
2. Partner made a takeout double
3. I have a sure diamond stopper
4. Suit contracts look unlikely
5. 3NT will usually have a good play
6. 3NT probably has no play or is very unlikely if partner has a minimum shape T/O double
7. Bid 2NT

2NT lets doubler bail out if they have a very minimum T/O double. Doubler also knows there is a game bonus and they can be pretty sure that with something like a 4441 10 count that game will not be good. 2NT is not a signoff bid since partner can bid 3NT. Also, if partner passes, you would be happy to make 2NT and I wouldn't be surprised to go down. Why give away 2 IMPs by going down an extra trick in a probably futile 3NT.

[johnu]

MrAce, on 2017-April-26, 15:49, said:

My bad! I thought you were advertising 2 NT!

Sorry, I must have left out some formatting. I should have said:

[Sarcasm on] I'm not such a wimp that I only bid 1NT [/ Sarcasm off]

[johnu]

Kaitlyn S, on 2017-April-27, 16:43, said:

You can't convince me to bid less than game with 14 points when partner makes a takeout double.

The actual hand only has 13 HCP or are you counting distribution points.

[Zelandakh]

johnu, on 2017-May-02, 15:03, said:

The actual hand only has 13 HCP or are you counting distribution points.

She was responding to Steve's post:

SteveMoe, on 2017-April-26, 20:32, said:

1N=8-11
2N=12-14

You can see this from the handy quote function built into the forum software. The comments referncing the actual hand were related to partner's action should this hand choose 2NT. Obviously the range of the 2NT call itself is highly relevant to this.

[nige1]

When I first saw the hand, I would have bid 2N
(or 3N if partner doesn't shade doubles).
The expert comments persuade me that pass is better.

[sfi]

One consideration about pass is that partner will lead a trump, so we have to be happy with that lead if we choose that option. Here I don't mind it since it is likely to be good for our side and doesn't give up tricks in whatever side suit partner chooses. At IMPs the upside is high and the downside at the one level is low.

If I bid, I'm choosing 2NT. But requirements for takeout doubles have dropped a lot over the years. Among the people I play with, MrAce's hand of

xxxx
AJx
x
AQxxx

is rather better than a minimum, so partner will accept with something approximating an opening hand.

[Zelandakh]

sfi, on 2017-May-04, 07:40, said:

xxxx
AJx
x
AQxxx

is rather better than a minimum, so partner will accept with something approximating an opening hand.

For some (most?) of us this is an opening hand.

[sfi]

Zelandakh, on 2017-May-04, 09:10, said:

For some (most?) of us this is an opening hand.

I didn't argue with that. If I held that hand for my double in a regular partnership, I would accept an invitation.

[RedSpawn]

FelicityR, on 2017-April-27, 12:19, said:

Thank you all for your replies and insights. For your information I passed the double - and yes, I do realise that it is the wrong type of hand to take this action - but I thought that maybe 3NT by us was possibly a doomed contract, and even if it was makeable there was a good possibility to set 1♦x by two tricks.

On the actual board my partner and myself set it 3 tricks - it should have been just two - but partner had doubled on ♠KQ83 ♥643 ♦Q103 ♣AJ5(!)

So your partner did a takeout double of 1♦ holding three diamonds himself and with a hand that has an awful 4-3-3-3 pancake distribution and 12 HCP? The distribution alone makes the hand worth a functional 11 points.

This is what makes bridge frustrating. The underlying assumption, for me, anyways, was that the takeout double was valid and plain vanilla, but once you said "pick-up game" in the BBO Main Bridge Club, throw "plain vanilla" out the door.