[eagles123]

Never mind the bollocks - the best use for 2d opening is...

[Cyberyeti]

Dependent on where the gap is in the rest of your system, if there is no gap, weak and destructive.

[gwnn]

http://www.bridgebas...ing-2-diamonds/

you're treading on 32519 territory here:
http://www.bridgebas...iamond-bid-for/

[Cyberyeti]

 gwnn, on 2016-March-01, 18:22, said:

you're treading on 32519 territory here:

Is that possible without a spaceship ?

[gwnn]

I like 2D=diamonds constructive/hearts crap the most (only when NV) but you can't play that in most jurisdictions (which is bollocks). I enjoy mini-multi as well, as well as proper multi which includes strong hands with diamonds too. I was trying to learn Mexican 2D which I suspect is very useful but never managed to learn a structure with it, I'm a bit daft I guess. I really enjoyed 2D=10-15 with 6+ diamonds in a strong club context but now we're getting to specifics. Obviously a lot of stuff depends on your system etc but this is the bollocks part that you advised against.

[kuhchung]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-March-01, 18:27, said:

Is that possible without a spaceship ?

My 2D bid can only gain and will never cost.

[mgoetze]

Wilkosz.

[Phil]

Flannery unless I have a gaping hole somewhere.

[Charlie Yu]

Wilkosz hands down.

[Zelandakh]

...probably not allowed under the local regulations.

[sfi]

Agree with Wilkosz. There was even data many years ago that where someone showed it gained an average of 3 IMPs a hand at world championship level, which is similar to my unscientific observations.

[PhantomSac]

Is Wilkosz weak with both majors? That would def be my first choice. 2nd choice weak with diamonds(!!)

edit: OK after googling looks like it's not weak with both majors.

[Cyberyeti]

 PhantomSac, on 2016-March-02, 07:52, said:

Is Wilkosz weak with both majors? That would def be my first choice. 2nd choice weak with diamonds(!!)

edit: OK after googling looks like it's not weak with both majors.

Wilkosz is too difficult for most club players to even think about how to defend it, hence it's banned in a lot of jurisdictions.

[hrothgar]

Couple commetns about Wilkosz

1. The Wilkosz 2♦ opening shows a two suoted hand with at least 5-5 distribution.
At least one of the suits is a major.
It traditionally would show between 7-11 HCPs

2. As folks have noted, Wilkosz used to score incredibly well in high level competition (averaging +3 IMPs of some such)
There has been some claim that this is because the Wilkosz 2♦ was too difficult to defend against.
This is hogwash.

if you look at the actual boards, the great results were due to the fact that the players at the other table did not have a way to safley open the 5-5 hands but couldn't bear to pass.

They'd be playing some system based on very sound opening bids, open some 5-5 9 count, and get a horrible result when their partner would make a penalty double or they'd end up in a no play 3N contract on 20 HCPs.

My gut says that if Wilkosz were allowed today, it wouldn't score nearly as well because people's bidding systems have adjusted to better handle weak distributional hands.

[mgoetze]

 PhantomSac, on 2016-March-02, 07:52, said:

Is Wilkosz weak with both majors? That would def be my first choice.

No, that's Ekrens. I personally believe that 2♥ is a much more effective bid for that, so I've played

2♠ 5+ Spades, 5+ minor (can be 4+ minor NV)
2♥ 4+ Spades, 4+ Hearts
2♦ Multi

2♠/♥ as nat weak 2 and 2♦ Ekrens is probably more effective if the opps haven't had a chance to discuss defense, though.

[wank]

I hate multi. I normally play 2d weak.

I'm quite attracted to flannery because i never saw anyone playing it in europe and i like being different. I realise it's much more common in america. I like the idea of bidding 2d 4M all the time too and leaving opps to defend blind.

Unfortunately i don't know enough of the nuances to have tried it. Should one open open 2d with 46? How well does it interact with KI and so on?

[PhantomSac]

 mgoetze, on 2016-March-02, 08:47, said:

No, that's Ekrens. I personally believe that 2♥ is a much more effective bid for that, so I've played

2♠ 5+ Spades, 5+ minor (can be 4+ minor NV)
2♥ 4+ Spades, 4+ Hearts
2♦ Multi

2♠/♥ as nat weak 2 and 2♦ Ekrens is probably more effective if the opps haven't had a chance to discuss defense, though.

Yeah for sure 2H weak with the majors is better than 2D, but I wouldn't want to have to play multi. Seems like having a bid for the majors is the nuts in general though.

[PhantomSac]

 wank, on 2016-March-02, 10:06, said:

I hate multi. I normally play 2d weak.

I'm quite attracted to flannery because i never saw anyone playing it in europe and i like being different. I realise it's much more common in america. I like the idea of bidding 2d 4M all the time too and leaving opps to defend blind.

Unfortunately i don't know enough of the nuances to have tried it. Should one open open 2d with 46? How well does it interact with KI and so on?

It is quite uncommon here also fwiw, it is disproportionately played by some top players relative to our general population (Hamman, Bramley, Weinstein etc).

Yes you should open it with 4-6 almost always (exception would be really good hearts where you don't mind missing a 4-4 spade fit). KI is even less common here, mickyb made some posts about KI+flannery being the nuts, but I think that KI solves a main issue that flannery solves, it seems to me like playing KI + weak 2D or w/e is a lot better than playing KI+flannery or flannery + no KI.

[mgoetze]

 PhantomSac, on 2016-March-02, 12:43, said:

Yeah for sure 2H weak with the majors is better than 2D, but I wouldn't want to have to play multi. Seems like having a bid for the majors is the nuts in general though.

Yeah another alternative is

2♠ nat weak 2
2♥ both majors
2♦ e.g. weak 2 in hearts or GF with diamonds

Works well with systems that have trouble describing GF hands with diamonds. That would be... most systems actually.

[Cyberyeti]

 mgoetze, on 2016-March-02, 14:39, said:

Yeah another alternative is

2♠ nat weak 2
2♥ both majors
2♦ e.g. weak 2 in hearts or GF with diamonds

Works well with systems that have trouble describing GF hands with diamonds. That would be... most systems actually.

You can easily stick another strong option into 2♦ as well, either a balanced range or strong 4441 or GF clubs for example.