[bd71]

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Matchpoints. Mainstream 2/1 agreements.

Listed plenty of options in the poll, but I presume the choice will be between 3♠ and 4♥.

If you choose 3♠, would changing one black king to an ace bump you up to 4♥, or does it require even more?

[mike777]

Other


3H splinter.

Prefer a bit more for a 4h splinter.

[ahydra]

2S, like the Holy Hand-Grenade "5", is right out! But I can't decide between 3S and 4H. If I go 4H it sounds like I've got a bit more than I have. If I go 3S it sounds like I might not have such a great shape/trick source in diamonds. Meh, I pick 4H.

Mike: That's interesting. I see 2H is a reverse so 3H can be a splinter - ideal here. Time to discuss this with my partner though!

ahydra

[ArtK78]

I agree with Mike. 3♥ invitational splinter.

When available, a double reverse should be an invitational to game splinter. You still have the full splinter (4♥) available to you for the appropriate hand.

Lacking a 3♥ splinter, I would bid 3♠, and changing a K to an A wouldn't change my call. You must allow for a light response by partner, and you have no idea how much of partner's values are wasted.

A 4♥ splinter is a big overbid. It implies that I have a game forcing hand PLUS a heart singleton, and it is a slam try. If I were to bid more than 3♠, it would be 4♠, not 4♥.

Edit:

The double reverse (3♥ on this hand) is an invitational splinter. But it can also be used as a massive hand with a singleton or void in hearts too good for a 4♥ splinter. You just bid again after partner signs off in 3♠. If partner does not sign off in 3♠, so much the better.

[aguahombre]

If the rebids according to your style are:
2S=minimum
3S=16-18 support points (unbalanced by inference)
4S=balanced 18-19
Spl=unbal 19-21 support points
etc,

Then, is is an easy 3S; no need to "feel", just evaluate and let partner "feel".

[Phil]

In my methods this is a 3♠ call, not 3♥.

But generally agree this is too strong for a raise to 2 and too weak to be a GF.

[Zelandakh]

ArtK78, on 2012-May-29, 10:44, said:

When available, a double reverse should be an invitational to game splinter.

Should it? There are several possible uses for this bid. I agree that using it as an invitational splinter (or some GF hands) is not a bad idea, but other uses are also logical. I do note that you choose to use this 3♥ bid to give you 3 ranges of splinter. Another option is to use it to differentiate between singletons and voids in game-forcing hands.

That also leads towards the idea of using 3♥ only for a range of GF hands, for example a void splinter or GF 1-suiter, or whatever other GF hand types your system has an issue with. Of course the most common alternative meaning for 3♥ here is a "super-reverse", that is a 6-5 hand that is too light in hcp for a normal reverse but nonetheless has enough playing strength. I think the invite (or better) splinter is the most common use though.

[han]

I like to play 3H as stronger than 3S. I believe our system says that 3S is about (14)15-16 and 3H is 17-18.

That makes this an obvious 3H bid. Partner can ask for shortness by bidding 3NT.

If you play that 3H is an invitational splinter (which is what I would assume when undiscussed with a North American partner) than this is also an obvious 3H bid.

In short, I'm bidding 3H!

[Fluffy]

bd71, on 2012-May-29, 10:10, said:

If you choose 3♠, would changing one black king to an ace bump you up to 4♥, or does it require even more?

I'd rather have 5431 than bump a king into an ace.

[han]

I'd rather have the ace.

Kxxx
x
AKQx
Axxx

I think it is close but I wouldn't. If we had x Kxxx AKQx Axxx then I would definitely splinter after 1D - 1H. The reason I don't do it here is that there is no room left for partner. In this case the splinter should have a narrower range and I think this beautiful 16-count falls just outside of that range for me.

[phil_20686]

I think cheapest splinter = 18-19 balanced with four card support is a nice treatment here.

In general agree you should use it to dive up the ranges for 3S in some way, have played han's treatment too, and liked it.

[han]

phil_20686, on 2012-May-30, 05:31, said:

have played han's treatment too, and liked it.

It's fairly new for me, but I like it too! It's simple and it comes up reasonably often.

We play that after both 3H and 3S responder can ask with 3NT. Then:

4C = 4252
4D = low shortness
4H = high shortness
4S = balanced.

The balanced hand cannot occur after 1m - 1S- 3S because we play strong notrumps.

After 1C - 1S we use all of 3D, 3H and 3S for different strengths, but perhaps this is overkill. I know a pair that plays 1C - 1S - 3H specifically as a minimal 5-6 with hearts.

[Phil]

I've been playing:

A: 1♦ - 1♠ - 3♥ = 17+ - 19 HCP balanced. This is useful because we can still play 3N.

B: 1♦ - 1♠ - 3♠ = 17 - 19 support points with shortness. 3N asks and then its a simple low (shortness) min / low max / high min / high max response.

In cases where we don't have the in-between call like 1♦ - 1♥ - 3♥, 3♠ is still an asking bid, but then 3N = no shortness (hand "A") and responder can pass, 2nd step = low shortness (next step is LTTC), 3rd step = high shortness min, 4th step = high shortness max.

[CSGibson]

Add me to the splinter-with-3♥ group.

[SteveMoe]

Jump reverse is a splinter, but many of partner's minimums will not let us win 10 tricks (try 3 Qs). Not sure we can stop in 3♠ after the jump reverse as partner would bid that w/extras (fast arrival).

On the other hand QJ in the blacks are enough aren't they. Maybe the better strategy is to trot out 2♣, risking partner's pass, but we'd be in trouble at 4♠ when partner would pass 2♣ anyway.

Here's how I'd bid after partner's rebids...
2♦ - 3♠ implying short Hearts and about these values. Partner can pass with waste values.
2♥ - 4♥ splintering in the 4th suit...(3♥ is forcing and shows 4 cards).
2♠ - 3.5♠ - yep I really bid 4...
2N - 4♠ partner has 8 losers...
3♣ - 4♠ another 8 loser option.

Net I need working cards in a 9 loser hand from partner. Hopefully this approach helps ferret that out.

[CSGibson]

SteveMoe, on 2012-May-31, 00:20, said:

Jump reverse is a splinter, but many of partner's minimums will not let us win 10 tricks (try 3 Qs). Not sure we can stop in 3♠ after the jump reverse as partner would bid that w/extras (fast arrival).

(snip)

I'm sorry, but you obviously don't understand fast arrival. That only applies when we are already in a game force, but one of the benefits of the 3♥ splinter is that you can use it with a slightly weaker hand because you aren't forced to game.

Here 3♠ is the weakest possible action, and suggests playing there, while 4♠ should be stronger.

[mikeh]

My preference for 3♥ is for it to show an invitational or better splinter.....partner assumes it was invitational and bids accordingly. Responder bids 3♠ with all game-negative hands, bids 4♠ with game positive but no slam interest opposite a game force splinter, and otherwise cuebids. That latter sequence is ambiguous, in that responder could be slamming opposite a game-invitational or only opposite a game force splinter, but there is room to work it out and it is possible to use 3N here artificially. 3N = real slam interest only if you have a gf splinter; 4m = slam interest opposite even an invitational, is one such possibility.

That way, 4♥ is a void splinter.

On this hand, we are on the cusp, in my preferred style, between a heavy 3♠ and a light splinter. I like my controls, so I opt for the splinter.

[Phil]

While a jump reverse is obviously a splinter, I would not consider it forcing to game. A sensible (standard?) way is to play 3♥ as either a value raise to 3♠ with heart shortness or a monster hand that is investigating slam either off of partner's signoff.

edit: MikeH cross posted with me. I agreed with him word for word, until I read "4♥ is a void splinter". 4♥ for me is the in-between hand that is simply a GF. I suppose you could layer all invitational / GF / GF+ hands into 3♥ so that 4♥ could be a void, but it sounds like a lot of work.

[ArtK78]

Phil, on 2012-May-31, 09:31, said:

While a jump reverse is obviously a splinter, I would not consider it forcing to game. A sensible (standard?) way is to play 3♥ as either a value raise to 3♠ with heart shortness or a monster hand that is investigating slam either off of partner's signoff.

edit: MikeH cross posted with me. I agreed with him word for word, until I read "4♥ is a void splinter". 4♥ for me is the in-between hand that is simply a GF. I suppose you could layer all invitational / GF / GF+ hands into 3♥ so that 4♥ could be a void, but it sounds like a lot of work.

Phil: Your method is the same as mine - invitational splinter or a massive hand with heart shortness. My post on this is about 14 posts up.

[Phil]

ArtK78, on 2012-May-31, 10:33, said:

Phil: Your method is the same as mine - invitational splinter or a massive hand with heart shortness. My post on this is about 14 posts up.

Yes, I see that in your edit on your original response. I was honestly looking at Zel's quote of yours.