[dickiegera]

---

Should South bid 4♥ or should South bid 3♥ and North raise to 4♥

Or something else?

Thank you

[the_clown]

I would bid 3NT as South

[aguahombre]

the_clown, on 2012-May-29, 19:04, said:

I would bid 3NT as South

And your cleverness would lose unless opener had seven diamonds without the club ace.

[Statto]

South could be better for the original pass. North could be a lot worse for the X. But it's close. Pre-empts work.

[mike777]

blame south....30%//// 70% rub of the green


bid 4h.....and yes this is a bare minimum and 4h could be a disaster, can understand pass here.

north can never bid 4h over 3h.

[aguahombre]

Let's see: After a preempt, when we have the strong hand we play partner for a normal 6-9 with normal distribution until he should something better. We have around 18 support points in a short deck, and partner (sure enough) has 6 points outside the diamond suit.

South bids 3H/the balancing double and North bids 4. If partner has zero points, then we could say "preempts work".

[mike777]

0=9 is wide range lets make it easy on pard and bid 4h


3h is not 6-9


with that said I understand 3h so only 30% blame.

[han]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-29, 19:20, said:

And your cleverness would lose unless opener had seven diamonds without the club ace.

What do you bid and why is this any less clever than bidding 3NT?

If you bid 3H you might play there with both 3NT and 4H cold.

If you bid 4H you might go down there in a 4-3 fit with 3NT cold.

It's all very well to look at partner's perfect 4414-shape and say that 3NT is a bid that's too clever and deserves a bad score, but it is not obvious to me that any other bid is better.

Having talked only about bids, does anybody think that pass is an option? What's the form of scoring anyway?

[han]

I am cleverly not going to make a choice, but I will say that at MPs I will not bid 4H with the south hand.

Maybe south is maximal for a 3H bid, north is maximal for a pass of 3H, and the partnership ends in a bad contract after an entirely reasonable auction. You can't get them all right, especially after a preempt.

[the_clown]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-29, 19:20, said:

And your cleverness would lose unless opener had seven diamonds without the club ace.

At IMPS I would rather bid a contract that is worth a game bonus, even though it is not certain to make, then underbid with 3♥, or try 4♥ so that I can often play in a 7 card fit with a bad trump split.

At MP I might pass or bid 3♥ depending on my mood opponents and vulnerability.

[the hog]

I would bid 3H over the double. I think the pass is absurd.

[SteveMoe]

North only promises 4-3 in the majors, but which way? South has 8 losers. Ugh. Bidding 3♥ allows flexibility so that partner can correct to 3♠ with 4=3 when appropriate. Better, over 3♠ South can now bid 3N giving North a clearer picture...Preempts do work...

[CSGibson]

SteveMoe, on 2012-May-30, 23:47, said:

North only promises 4-3 in the majors, but which way? South has 8 losers. Ugh. Bidding 3♥ allows flexibility so that partner can correct to 3♠ with 4=3 when appropriate. Better, over 3♠ South can now bid 3N giving North a clearer picture...Preempts do work...

Brilliant! North can correct to their 4-1 or 4-2 fit instead of their 4-3 or 5-3! - or South can correct back and play at the 4 level hoping against hope not to be doubled. [/sarcasm]

[kuhchung]

I'd reach 3H by S.