[masse24]

Saw this one the other day and it puzzled me as I had not seen it before.

The bidding:

1NT - 2♣
2♦ - 5NT

What is 5NT?

(hint - it's probably not what you think )

[Antrax]

For us it would be a quantitative invite to 6 or 7 NT, so responder has 20-22 HCP. What did I win?

[Cyberyeti]

Antrax, on 2011-December-18, 07:35, said:

For us it would be a quantitative invite to 6 or 7 NT, so responder has 20-22 HCP. What did I win?

Something like this, not sure of the point range but the meaning is right.

[aguahombre]

masse24, on 2011-December-18, 07:29, said:

Saw this one the other day and it puzzled me as I had not seen it before.

(hint - it's probably not what you think )

What it IS, for most of us, is what Antrax and Cyber said. What you saw it used for the other day truly might not be what we think.

[Fluffy]

I would had bet americans would play this as pick a slam (minor) with 3 suiter hand, but the 20 HCP quant is what I first though about.

[kenrexford]

Fluffy, on 2011-December-18, 09:32, said:

I would had bet americans would play this as pick a slam (minor) with 3 suiter hand, but the 20 HCP quant is what I first though about.

That's what I would have guessed, also. A 4-1-4-4 or 1-4-4-4 quantitative slam force.

[masse24]

---

BINGO!

My first inclination was that 5NT was a Quantitative slam try, but it was "Pick-A-Slam" in a minor suit.
(Not really sure why South went through Stayman )

Thought it an interesting treatment.

It does however, give up the quantitative bid, so maybe 5♠'s as "Pick-A-Slam" might be an improvement since you do not give up the Quant 5NT?

[kenrexford]

Kind of a funky way to play opposite 3-3-3-4 in 6♣ rather than 6♦, but OK.

[Antrax]

kenrexford, the idea is to make partner declarer. That's why N went through stayman.

[kenrexford]

Antrax, on 2011-December-18, 11:32, said:

kenrexford, the idea is to make partner declarer. That's why N went through stayman.

You go through Stayman to make sure that club contracts are played by Responder but diamond contracts played by Opener? That's deep!

[myprac]

Someone who wanted to retain the quantitative bid while making this other use of 5NT available could say the "pick a slam" meaning applies only after Stayman. Would that explain the bidding sequence?

[Free]

Not sure if I'd bid this way with the South hand, but for me 5NT is pick a slam. I'd rather think he has a 4-4m, not 5-3, so opener can comfortably bid 6m on a 4 card suit (he has at least a 4 card suit in at least one of the minors).

[JLOGIC]

kenrexford, on 2011-December-18, 09:46, said:

That's what I would have guessed, also. A 4-1-4-4 or 1-4-4-4 quantitative slam force.

Why limit it to 4-4 in the minors? On top of 44(14) you could simply be 4xx4, 4x4x, x44x, x4x4, etc. All of these hands will want to find a 4-4 minor suit fit in their 4 card minor if it exists. Bidding 3m with that hand type is an option but you'll never really know whether partner has 4 card support.

Maybe a bit convoluted for casual partnerships, but I use 5H, 5S, and 5N in this auction with joe so we can do everything (including playing the 5-3 fit when we have (42)(43) which if you play 5N as pick a slam you will not be able to do since partner will just be showing a 4 card minor looking for a 4-4).

Without using any bid other than 5N, then I'd say being able to play 4-4 minor suit fits with a slam force hand type is infinitely more useful than a quantitative to 7 hand type, it's way more common that you just have a slam force with a 4 card minor and even if you have 17, 6N may be no lock and 6m will often be far superior so that you can ruff.

[JLOGIC]

Also, if you are the type that plays 1N 4S as 4-4 minors quantitative, and you play delayed texas, you can play 1N 2C 2D 4S as 4-4 minors quantitative or better. You could tie in 4234 hand types to that also.

[Zelandakh]

JLOGIC, on 2011-December-19, 03:37, said:

Also, if you are the type that plays 1N 4S as 4-4 minors quantitative, and you play delayed texas, you can play 1N 2C 2D 4S as 4-4 minors quantitative or better. You could tie in 4234 hand types to that also.

I always thought it is standard to play 1NT - 4S as a Baron range ask when using Texas unless you already play a 2S response for that.

[Cyberyeti]

JLOGIC, on 2011-December-19, 03:33, said:

Why limit it to 4-4 in the minors? On top of 44(14) you could simply be 4xx4, 4x4x, x44x, x4x4, etc. All of these hands will want to find a 4-4 minor suit fit in their 4 card minor if it exists. Bidding 3m with that hand type is an option but you'll never really know whether partner has 4 card support.

Maybe a bit convoluted for casual partnerships, but I use 5H, 5S, and 5N in this auction with joe so we can do everything (including playing the 5-3 fit when we have (42)(43) which if you play 5N as pick a slam you will not be able to do since partner will just be showing a 4 card minor looking for a 4-4).

Without using any bid other than 5N, then I'd say being able to play 4-4 minor suit fits with a slam force hand type is infinitely more useful than a quantitative to 7 hand type, it's way more common that you just have a slam force with a 4 card minor and even if you have 17, 6N may be no lock and 6m will often be far superior so that you can ruff.

Habitually playing a weak no trump, hence not needing Smolen, we use 1N-2♣-2♦-3♥ for finding 4-4 minor suit fits.

[Trinidad]

1NT systems that make it possible to uncover minor suit fits below the six level have not found their way to the US yet?

Rik

[Mbodell]

JLOGIC, on 2011-December-19, 03:37, said:

Also, if you are the type that plays 1N 4S as 4-4 minors quantitative, and you play delayed texas, you can play 1N 2C 2D 4S as 4-4 minors quantitative or better. You could tie in 4234 hand types to that also.

Interesting. I play both 1N 4♠ as 4-4 minors quant and delayed texas in several partnerships. I've never seen or discussed 1N 2C 2D 4S but that makes a lot of sense too.

[han]

JLOGIC, on 2011-December-19, 03:33, said:

you could simply be 4xx4, 4x4x, x44x, x4x4, etc.

JLOGIC, I thought you went through puppet stayman with these and then bid 4m?

[Free]

han, on 2011-December-20, 09:43, said:

JLOGIC, I thought you went through puppet stayman with these and then bid 4m?

Doesn't that show 5m332?