[jmcw]

After 3 passes you open 1♣ on your balanced 12/14.
Lefty overcalls 1♥, pass, pass, ?

Pretty std methods, scoring is MP, your p is decent and pretty aggressive.

1. Can it ever be right to pass ?
2. What's your bid with Jxx,KJx,KQx,ATxx ?

[aguahombre]

1. Yes
2. No bid

[Hanoi5]

I don't think it's right to pass. I'd double.

[fromageGB]

Yes, this is one of the times. 1NT is a possibility, though. I don't like X with only 3 spades and going down as dummy with the lead through me.

[FrancesHinden]

1. Yes. Quite often when you have a 12-14 NT
2 Pass

[aguahombre]

fromageGB, on 2011-December-18, 12:01, said:

1NT is a possibility, though.

Overstating the hand by about an Ace.

[fromageGB]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-18, 18:36, said:

Overstating the hand by about an Ace.

I did say this hand was a pass in my view, but in the protective seat at the one level, there is an argument for bidding 1NT not vulnerable, and it's pretty close. You don't mind a heart lead, and the strength is equally divided between the 2 sides. Could well be your hand, as partner without 4 spades and no decent minor does not have the heart values to bid the 1NT he otherwise would.

If 1♥ makes plus 1, then even 2 off in 1NT is a good score, and if 1♥ makes then 1 off is a good score. If 1♥ goes off one, then you make 1NT for a better score. Matchpoints, remember.

[WellSpyder]

fromageGB, on 2011-December-19, 08:13, said:

If 1♥ makes plus 1, then even 2 off in 1NT is a good score....

Well, it's a better score, of course. But not necessarily a good score when you could easily have passed the hand out in 4th seat....

[fromageGB]

fromageGB, on 2011-December-19, 08:13, said:

If 1♥ makes plus 1, then even 2 off in 1NT is a good score ...

WellSpyder, on 2011-December-19, 09:20, said:

Well, it's a better score, of course. But not necessarily a good score when you could easily have passed the hand out in 4th seat....

In the clubs I play in, -100 always scores better than -110

[fromageGB]

WellSpyder, on 2011-December-19, 09:20, said:

Well, it's a better score, of course. But not necessarily a good score when you could easily have passed the hand out in 4th seat....

Or are you suggesting you should always refrain from opening on a balanced 14 count ?

[jmcw]

aguahombre, on 2011-December-18, 05:50, said:

1. Yes
2. No bid

FrancesHinden, on 2011-December-18, 14:28, said:

1. Yes. Quite often when you have a 12-14 NT
2 Pass

Frankly, I was surprised by these opinions.
Passing seems like rolling over and playing dead, usually few matchpoints coming our way defending at the 1 level
It occurs to me we have 1/2 the hcp and therefore should be competing. The auction suggests we likely have a decent chance of making 1NT or maybe 2 or 3 of a minor.
In spite of the tenuous ♥ holding I suggest X is the % call.

fromageGB, on 2011-December-19, 09:31, said:

Or are you suggesting you should always refrain from opening on a balanced 14 count ?

Never occurred to me!

[daveharty]

jmcw, on 2011-December-19, 10:10, said:

Passing seems like rolling over and playing dead, usually few matchpoints coming our way defending at the 1 level
It occurs to me we have 1/2 the hcp and therefore should be competing. The auction suggests we likely have a decent chance of making 1NT or maybe 2 or 3 of a minor.
In spite of the tenuous ♥ holding I suggest X is the % call.

Partner heard you open in 4th seat, so he knows you have something, but declined to take action over 1H. Your hand suggests partner doesn't have a penalty pass. Why then must we have half the deck? Maybe the opponents forgot to eat their Wheaties. Or maybe nobody can make anything. You aren't going to be outbidding them if partner can't bid spades, and you rightly described your heart holding as tenuous. I agree with agua and Frances, pass.

[jmcw]

---

Well, passing 1♥ got us -110 and 2-1/2mp. There were a few +50,+90,+110 and 120 our way.

[jmcw]

oops sorry

[aguahombre]

This North hand, and South's dilemma in reopening position are why North needs to take some action over the 1H overcall. It is also a reason why we use the double (or 1S for others) to show a flawed hand with responding values and not 4-card spade suit.

Nevertheless, East will raise to 2H; and you will probably have to sell out anyway. Unfortunate this time, but it doesn't make the South hand right to reopen after North passes.

[Cyberyeti]

Should you play 15-17 1N in 4th seat ? certainly its frequency will be higher after 3 passes, but if you open a little weaker, you at least partially solve this problem. Many people who play 12-14 play 11-14 in 4th, I'm not sure what strong no trumpers do. It forces opps to intervene at the 2 level, moving to 13-15 or 14-16 in 4th would I suspect sort W out in this case.

[Zelandakh]

This kind of hand is one reason using a "skip-bid double" after 1C - (1H) is arguably simpler for B/Is than the more standard negative double. If double shows diamonds then you can effectively just bid as per normal ignoring the opps. The method is probably unsuitable once you reach advanced level though.

[FrancesHinden]

jmcw, on 2011-December-19, 10:10, said:

Frankly, I was surprised by these opinions.
Passing seems like rolling over and playing dead, usually few matchpoints coming our way defending at the 1 level
It occurs to me we have 1/2 the hcp and therefore should be competing. The auction suggests we likely have a decent chance of making 1NT or maybe 2 or 3 of a minor.
In spite of the tenuous ♥ holding I suggest X is the % call.




Never occurred to me!

If you were so certain what the right action is, why did you bother posting the hand?

It is true that the full hand demonstrates three things:
1. Doubling in the protective seat here will result in you playing in 3D-1 by North, which I agree is better than -110
2. If you want to win the board, you need to be playing a method when you can open 1NT in 4th seat and have the opponents not come in over it (hence the +90 and +120)
3. As already mentioned, it is very handy to have a way for responder to show a 'good hand with no obvious action' whether than is double or 1S.

[jmcw]

FrancesHinden, on 2011-December-21, 07:18, said:

If you were so certain what the right action is, why did you bother posting the hand?

It is true that the full hand demonstrates three things:
1. Doubling in the protective seat here will result in you playing in 3D-1 by North, which I agree is better than -110
2. If you want to win the board, you need to be playing a method when you can open 1NT in 4th seat and have the opponents not come in over it (hence the +90 and +120)
3. As already mentioned, it is very handy to have a way for responder to show a 'good hand with no obvious action' whether than is double or 1S.

Ty for the replies

I posted because I did not know what action N/S should take to shake the 1♥ overcall.
As a general rule many believe that at mp's you should "never" let the ops play at the 1 level, preffering to compete with some "speculative" bid in the pass-out seat. If memory serves I think LC among others has championed this theory. So, my OP was intended to solicit debate on general stategy in the balancing seat
I was confident expert players would have methods to compete effectively, expecting comments "its suicide to pass" or some such, hence my surprise at the vote for pass.

[Charlie Yu]

North gets around 300% of the blame, at NV it is quite an obvious 2♦ NF if available and 1NT if not available.