[kruba]

---

West's 2D is alerted to show Diamonds and a Major, at least 4-4. West has forgotten the system.
North's X is for take out, showing at least 3 Hearts. Is East allowed to pass this, in the light
of North's X? 2D* goes 2 off. 2H* goes 5 off. What is the ruling if East passes the X of 2D?

[mycroft]

Why not? What UI does East have (nothing as you've written it, but West may have flinched or otherwise made it clear that he forgot the system)? What agreements do E/W have that they haven't shared with N/S (i.e. is West in the habit of forgetting this/their agreement)? In the absence of UI, and having provided full disclosure, East can do whatever she wants.

West has UI, and is constrained, but I can't see any other sane bid than pass to 1NT-2D (natural)-X-P-P with that hand.

[paulg]

As East appears to have no unauthorised information he is free to do what he pleases.

Or are you really asking whether the decision to play in a 4-2 fit, when there should be a better major fit, means East feels that West has forgotten the system? And has this happened before to lead East to this conclusion?

[ggwhiz]

What would 2♥ instead of 2♦ show?

I suspect that 2♦ would show 4 plus with ONLY 4 hearts which may split badly as well.

The pass of 2♦ looks reasonable without a 4th heart or a flinch by partner when 2♦ is alerted. Reasonable to the point that a minor hitch would be tough to prove as UI.

[FrancesHinden]

paulg, on 2011-February-01, 13:58, said:

As East appears to have no unauthorised information he is free to do what he pleases.

Or are you really asking whether the decision to play in a 4-2 fit, when there should be a better major fit, means East feels that West has forgotten the system? And has this happened before to lead East to this conclusion?

But even if that's true, East may be guilty of poor disclosure, but I can't see any damage. If 2D were explained as "supposed to be diamonds and a major but he might have only diamonds", how would the auction be different? I realise NS are making 4H, but would North not make a take-out double with that explanation, or would South not pass?

p.s. only two off? Really?

[jallerton]

paulg, on 2011-February-01, 13:58, said:

As East appears to have no unauthorised information he is free to do what he pleases.

Or are you really asking whether the decision to play in a 4-2 fit, when there should be a better major fit, means East feels that West has forgotten the system? And has this happened before to lead East to this conclusion?

If the 2♦ bid could usually be expected to deliver five diamonds and a 4-card major, then the pass of 2♦x is reasonable. On the other hand, if it will often be only 4-4 (as will certainly be the case if their system does not allow them to play in 1NTx) then the decision to play in a 4-2 fit rather than a 4-3 or 4-4 (partner can have spades, remember) looks like a "red" fielded misbid to me. Perhaps this has happened before, or perhaps West showed a reaction to East's alert and explanation, giving East the UI that they were not on the same wavelength.

Anyway, the first thing the TD should do is to ask East to explain why he passed over 2♦x. Did the TD ask this question and, if so, what was the reply?

[kruba]

Unfortunately, West had bid very quickly, and it was quite possible that she had forgotten the system.
East had no choice, but to bid 2H. What would the ruling have been if West had bid in tempo, and
East had passed North's X. East would have said that he had passed, because North had shown Hearts.
2D does only go 2 off (according to DF).

[bluejak]

This looks "Red" to me, certainly, ie a fielded misbid, a breach of Law 40A3. Of course, East is given the chance to explain.

Since West bid 2♦ very quickly there are also UI implications.

I shall bet that West has forgotten this convention a few times before. Any takers?

[ggwhiz]

kruba, on 2011-February-01, 19:26, said:

Unfortunately, West had bid very quickly, and it was quite possible that she had forgotten the system.
East had no choice, but to bid 2H. What would the ruling have been if West had bid in tempo, and
East had passed North's X. East would have said that he had passed, because North had shown Hearts.
2D does only go 2 off (according to DF).

UI appears to exist but not from anything mentioned in the original post. Still tough to prove without knowing
(for example) what a direct 2♥ means.

The Director could likely solve this at the table if given the full and relevant information. Did West admit to bidding very quickly? Or did anyone ask?

[WellSpyder]

kruba, on 2011-February-01, 19:26, said:

East would have said that he had passed, because North had shown Hearts.

?? So partner is more likely to have ♠ than ♥? Still seems better to play in a 4-3 ♠ fit than a 4-2 ♦ fit.