[Al_U_Card]

Scoring: MP

2♥- p - p - ???

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Okay, its a club game against the best opps in the field who just jumped all over your side's error on the first board.....they play aggressive weak 2 bids, so do you balance with this and would the vulnerability affect your decision?

[skjaeran]

It could be terribly wrong (any action/non-action could), but I'm a bidder here: Double.

[jikl]

I pass, there is too little upside here. And how do the doublers feel when partner bids 3♦?

Sean

[ArtK78]

Since I want to bid and I can't double with a doubleton diamond, I just balance with 2♠.

[jdonn]

I would pass in a flash if vul, and also pass if w/r. I guess I would balance at mps (with a double!!!) w/w but it's an unsound action that I'm only taking because of the situation.

I don't feel that bad if partner bids 3♦, to bid the highest suit above 2♥ he will have at least 5 most of the time. I don't feel great either, but it's not like automatic disaster.

[bhall]

I think Justin's point is good, but I'm with those who try 2♠ in balancing seat. I don't expect partner to play me for the world's fair, and I do expect that the high cards are roughly split between the two sides.

Because of the strength of the ♠ suit, I don't expect to be doubled in 2, and partner has a 3♥ cue available to keep from overbidding with near-opening values. If they compete, I have gotten partner off to a good lead.

In sum, I should be OK with most of the developments after a 2♠ balance.

[pclayton]

If I'm vul and I open 2♥ and it continues pass - pass and RHO goes into the tank, what are you rooting for? Obviously pard doesn't have a big hand, and doesn't have a fit. You are hoping RHO takes a call and guesses wrong.

I will pass 2♥ on these grounds.

[the hog]

Agree with Phil. Definitely not 2S!! I can't believe I am reading this from anyone.

[bhall]

The_Hog, on Oct 25 2007, 07:51 PM, said:

Agree with Phil. Definitely not 2S!! I can't believe I am reading this from anyone.

This strong reaction makes me wonder: What range of shape and size do you expect from a 2♠ balance? Why do you judge that the result of the balance will be more frequently bad than good?

I'm not disputing, just trying to understand.

[jdonn]

bhall, on Oct 25 2007, 08:20 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Oct 25 2007, 07:51 PM, said:

Agree with Phil. Definitely not 2S!! I can't believe I am reading this from anyone.

This strong reaction makes me wonder: What range of shape and size do you expect from a 2♠ balance? Why do you judge that the result of the balance will be more frequently bad than good?

I'm not disputing, just trying to understand.

IMO you not only underestimate the odds of a penalty (either doubled or otherwise, and in either 2 or 3 after being raised), but severely underestimate it. I mean if you double partner will bid a four card spade suit anyway, so all you gain is 4-3 fits when nothing else would have been better. On such a balanced hand that seems like a target that is both small and a bit random to shoot for.

[kenrexford]

Pass.

I play that as forcing, though.

[the hog]

There are a couple of other considerations as well. As I have 3 H and pd has said nothing, it is not unreasonable to suppose that he has a few H cards. Any H hons he has are likely to get ruffed out.
Further, pd will raise with some points and 3 card support. Do you want to play 3S in a 4-3 fit with pd not having a great hand? As Josh says, you are looking for a blackeye to nothing by bidding here.

[bhall]

Thanks for your answers.

It appears from your comments that you expect partner to raise the balance on something like xxx Qxx Kxxx Axx, which I would not. Not even exchanging the ♥Q for the ♠Q. It's true, when he passes with the first holding I will often go down 2 at 2♠, but I really don't expect to be doubled. And 2♥ could easily make.

When partner has 12-13 with ♥ stops, I will expect a 2N response; when he has 12-13 in support, I expect a cue. With 4 ♠ and 10-11, I expect he would raise to 3, and that we would make about half the time. Maybe that's optimistic.

I guess what I am saying is that 2♥ passed out is a slightly negative position, while a 2♠ balance may exchange a minus for a smaller minus, or turn a minus into a plus, often enough to make it worthwhile. Provided partner treads warily.

Surely, he will not value ♥Qxx or Qx. Or fail to bid notrump with ♥KQx.

[whereagles]

You can afford to pass at imps. At matchpoints it's less clear, which is why I'd dbl.

[helene_t]

Matchpoint bidding in a club game is generally a gamble, I think. But I would not bid this hand at any vul. At w/w it would be close, though.

[the hog]

"Thanks for your answers.

It appears from your comments that you expect partner to raise the balance on something like xxx Qxx Kxxx Axx"

This would be a clear cut raise for me, and I suspect most other posters - an Ace, a King and 3 card support and no raise????

[whereagles]

It wouldn't be a raise to me, I must say.

Pard is already counting on me having 9-10 hcp when he balances. I don't seem to have more than the expectancy, so pass.

[Fluffy]

My soound overcall system leaves me stuck with a double here, game is still possible our side.

[Codo]

I am in the pass camp and find pass at imps clear cut and at mp superior.
But I don not understand any strong words against double or 2 Spade. I believe that these bids are worse, but this is a borderline hand.
For the guys who think 2 Spade is nuts and double: Hopefully your pd never bids 3 Diamond with a 3343 hand or with a 3244 with better diamonds. (Okay, in the second case you had discussed that 2 NT here is surely scrambling, who needs Lebensohl or even a natural 2 NT bid?) (And I agree that it should be scrambling, but this is more common in the BBF then in the real world.)
There are reasons for 2 Spade. I don´t find them convincing enough to choose the bid, but your reasoning isn´t flawless either.