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Bid 2D over 1NT MP's

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2006-December-08, 20:18

Suppose you are both World class players. You play matchpoints. You agreed to open 5=5=4=2 (short clubs). And with 4-4 in the minors you open 1 Club.
You play 1NT 15-17 and the rest is common sense.
Bidding goes (opps silent):
MP's / All Vul
1C-1D
1H-1NT
2D
What hand do you think opener has?
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2006-December-08, 23:29

1444 or 1435
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#3 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2006-December-08, 23:46

I have to admit that I strongly don't care for that opening method.

Anyhow, before I can answer I need to ask if the pair is playing Walsh-type responses where 1 after 1 denies a 4 card major unless GF strength (which obviously isn't shown by the 1NT rebid).

To all answering here, I must state the obvious and ask why the opps with at least 9 's haven't entered the auction.

.. neilkaz ..
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#4 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2006-December-09, 01:56

neilkaz, on Dec 9 2006, 05:46 AM, said:

To all answering here, I must state the obvious and ask why the opps with at least 9 's haven't entered the auction.

If one partner has, say Kxxx and the other xxxxx then there is often no reason why either of them would have had a bid at any time.
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#5 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2006-December-09, 04:34

neilkaz, on Dec 9 2006, 07:46 AM, said:

Anyhow, before I can answer I need to ask if the pair is playing Walsh-type responses where 1 after 1 denies a 4 card major unless GF strength (which obviously isn't shown by the 1NT rebid).

No Walsh-type responses
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#6 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2006-December-09, 14:11

kgr, on Dec 8 2006, 09:18 PM, said:

Suppose you are both World class players. You play matchpoints. You agreed to open 5=5=4=2 (short clubs). And with 4-4 in the minors you open 1 Club.
You play 1NT 15-17 and the rest is common sense.
Bidding goes (opps silent):
MP's / All Vul
1C-1D
1H-1NT
2D
What hand do you think opener has?

I play this same method, and unlike neil, I highly prefer it. It did take some getting used to when I first started playing this way, however. When playing these methods, my partnerships will bid 4 card suits up the line, so a 1D response does not deny a four card major.

I would expect partner to be either 1-4-4-4 or possibly 1-4-3-5.

I also consider 2 to be non-forcing in this situation, if its of any relevance.
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
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#7 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2006-December-09, 17:44

I wondered if you could bid this way with 1=4=4=4 and around 17 pts. At MP's 2D scores worse then 1NT so maybe 2D should show extra's here, inviting partner to bid 2NT or 3D with 8-9 pts?
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#8 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2006-December-09, 20:39

kgr, on Dec 9 2006, 04:34 AM, said:

neilkaz, on Dec 9 2006, 07:46 AM, said:

Anyhow, before I can answer I need to ask if the pair is playing Walsh-type responses where 1 after 1 denies a 4 card major unless GF strength (which obviously isn't shown by the 1NT rebid).

No Walsh-type responses

1444 or 1435 possibly. As for strength, one would think it minimal unless agreed otherwise, but then again why give the opps more info to bid and why not leave it in NT at MP's if having only 3.

... neilkaz ...
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#9 User is offline   zasanya 

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Posted 2006-December-10, 04:01

kgr, on Dec 9 2006, 06:44 PM, said:

I wondered if you could bid this way with 1=4=4=4 and around 17 pts. At MP's 2D scores worse then 1NT so maybe 2D should show extra's here, inviting partner to bid 2NT or 3D with 8-9 pts?

Why not 3 instead of 2?Does 1NT automatically score more at mps than 2?
Aniruddha
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#10 User is offline   lowerline 

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Posted 2006-December-11, 03:38

kgr, on Dec 9 2006, 06:44 PM, said:

I wondered if you could bid this way with 1=4=4=4 and around 17 pts. At MP's 2D scores worse then 1NT so maybe 2D should show extra's here, inviting partner to bid 2NT or 3D with 8-9 pts?

I would rather think the opposite. Partner passes with 14-15hcp and bids 2 with less. If you are likely to have the minority of the points, 2 might score better then 1NT...

Steven
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#11 User is offline   bid_em_up 

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Posted 2006-December-11, 10:09

kgr, on Dec 9 2006, 06:44 PM, said:

I wondered if you could bid this way with 1=4=4=4 and around 17 pts. At MP's 2D scores worse then 1NT so maybe 2D should show extra's here, inviting partner to bid 2NT or 3D with 8-9 pts?

If 1-4-4-4 with 17 hcp, you would/should show the big hand with fit by bidding 3 at either your first or second turn, imo. Alternatively, you might splinter in if that bid is available to you.
Is the word "pass" not in your vocabulary?
So many experts, not enough X cards.
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