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No clubs partner?

#1 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Yesterday, 20:05

West is declaring 3, on the second round of clubs he shows out and dummy asks "no clubs partner"?

Before West has a chance to answer, North answers for him, "no, he has no clubs"

E/W object. What can the Director do?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#2 User is offline   kerkido 

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Posted Yesterday, 21:05

What was E/W's objection?

If declarer is really out of clubs, the only person who benefits from the information that North already knew the club split is surely declarer, so E/W should be better off.
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#3 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted Yesterday, 23:45

View Postjillybean, on 2026-May-17, 20:05, said:

West is declaring 3, on the second round of clubs he shows out and dummy asks "no clubs partner"?

Before West has a chance to answer, North answers for him, "no, he has no clubs"

E/W object. What can the Director do?


Tell N to keep his mouth shut, phrase it more friendly.
But given that the hidden hand showed out, the split is obv. too both defenders, i.e. there is no UI.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#4 User is offline   axman 

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Posted Today, 02:30

View Postkerkido, on 2026-May-17, 21:05, said:

What was E/W's objection?

If declarer is really out of clubs, the only person who benefits from the information that North already knew the club split is surely declarer, so E/W should be better off.

Including when his club is stuck to a spade?
Bridge is a game and I will remember that its place in my life is that of a game. I will respect those who play and endeavor to be worthy of their respect. I will remember that it is the most human of activities which makes bridge so interesting. And in doing so I will contribute my best and strive to conduct myself fairly. -Bridge Player’s Creed
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#5 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted Today, 06:20

 jillybean, on 2026-May-17, 20:05, said:

West is declaring 3, on the second round of clubs he shows out and dummy asks "no clubs partner"?

Before West has a chance to answer, North answers for him, "no, he has no clubs"

E/W object. What can the Director do?

She can start by verifying if West has no clubs.
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#6 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 07:30

View Postpescetom, on 2026-May-18, 06:20, said:

She can start by verifying if West has no clubs.

Thanks, no clubs.
If N/S regain the lead, are there any lead restrictions?

Have we boarded the #16 after this poorly conceived comment by North?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted Today, 08:36

 jillybean, on 2026-May-18, 07:30, said:

Thanks, no clubs.
If N/S regain the lead, are there any lead restrictions?

Have we boarded the #16 after this poorly conceived comment by North?

If the fact that North "knew" transmitted meaningful UI then there are all the consequences. NS can both see the dummy and count the joint holdings of partner plus Declarer. Probably North knew (or imagined) the initial club holding of South. Now that West is known for certain to have none then South knows the remaining and initial club holdings of North, in any case. Probably North was just showing off, but maybe he wanted to draw attention to clubs for some reason: I would look at the diagram and examine auction and play so far before deciding about restriction. The board is certainly going to be finished, at very worst I may have to throw out the score obtained at table if I later realise I decided wrongly.
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#8 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 08:52

The board will be finished. If North had kept quiet, we would not be in this complicated mess.
Is a minimal PP in order? (N/S are an experienced pair)
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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#9 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted Today, 08:59

 jillybean, on 2026-May-18, 08:52, said:

If North had kept quiet, we would not be in this complicated mess.
Is a minimal PP in order? (N/S are an experienced pair)

It's borderline for me. If it was obvious to North from the auction or whatever then I would just tell him off. If there was any hint of waking up partner or disrespect for the opponents then yes.
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#10 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted Today, 09:21

North's comment suggests their length in clubs is such that they know that neither partner nor declarer can have any more clubs.

This is theoretically UI to South, but since it's equivalent to the AI they get from declarer confirming that they have no clubs, I don't see how there can be any damage.

If declarer does find a club in their hand, something else is wrong -- either the board has been fouled, or North miscounted their clubs.

Either way, North's comment is inappropriate. If they have a habit of doing this, a PP would be appropriate to try to cure them of it. First time, just warn them not to make extraneous comments.

#11 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 09:43

thanks, pretty much my thoughts. What I won't do is let them brush it off, "everyone knows the club distribution"
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly. MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"Hysterical Raisins again - this time on the World stage, not just the ACBL" mycroft
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