[paulsim]

Hi all,

when partner doubles asking for a major and you have both, response is dogmatic?
Higher ranking first? More space?
Are major responses similar to Stayman, in the form that usually you answere hearts when you have both majors because 2S denies 4 hearts?


What do you bid?

A1.- Takeout: minimun response

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A2.- Takeout: intermediate response

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A3.- Takeout: shapely intermedium: 5/4 or 4/5: Does it mind?

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A4.- Takeout: shapely intermedium: 5/5

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A5.- Takeout: minium with 3-3

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B1.- Negative double: majors 3/3

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B2.- Negative double: majors 4/4 minium

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B3.- Negative double: majors 4/4 intermediate

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Thanks in advance to everybody
Kind Regards

Paul_S

[DavidKok]

Quite the list!

• A1: Spades first, so you can cheaply bid 2♥ if partner bids on.
  
• A2: It depends on your agreements for 2♦/2♥/2♠, there are at least two common styles here.
  
• A3: Longer suit first, though I'd force the example hand to game.
  
• A4: Higher suit first, then jump rebid in the other.
  
• A5: 1♥ and try not to look upset about it.
  
• B1: The horror scenario. As mentioned before, 1♦-(2♣) auctions are impossible, and partner has made the situation worse by doubling (the most annoying continuation). I am very tempted to just toss out all questions on this auction - unless you are willing to put in some work you will not have clean auctions on this start. Trying to find the best standard continuation is a waste of time and effort, there is simply no way to recover. Make some agreements here, whether 2♦ or 2♥ is 'default', and pray that it never comes up again.
  
• B2: This is not a minimum, just bid 3♣. But I think people would bid 2♥ with an actual minimum.
  
• B3: 4♣ looks fine, or 3♣ if you're feeling shy.

[Cyberyeti]

A1 I believe expert standard is 1♠ because it's better if partner doubles again to bid hearts than the other way round
A2 you need to discuss how strong 2♦ needs to be
A3 2♦, you're bidding game in either major if partner shows one and 3♠ if partner bids clubs or NT
A4 2♦
A5 1♥

B1 B2 and B3 are contradictory - are you playing a weak NT or a stong NT, you're opening 1N on at least one of them

[apollo1201]

A1 - with such a dead min I stick to H, rebidding them as the most discouraging call if partner cues; bidding S then H if forced by partner suggests that I’d have freely competed and tried to introduce both suits should opps bid 2m, but it is a question of agreement with partner and has pros and cons (how to distinguish 5-7 from 0-4 vs finding the best strain with hopeless hands)

A2 - those 8-10 44 hands can cue and bid 3M over 2M from partner, not displaying much than this (sometimes leads to pushy contracts, but in the right strain😁)

A3 and 4 - cue and I’ll bid game over 2M from partner (maybe 4D with 55? But space consuming while slam is not a remote possibility)

A5 - 1H, placing the card on the table with a confident look 😅

B1 - is 2NT allowed otherwise partner should have a back up plan


B2 and 3 - H first, may have S (see a former thread), but I wonder when do you open 1NT

[helene_t]

A1: 1♠
A2: In European style you can bid 2♦ and then pass a 2M rebid by partner, but in American style you promise to bid again if you start with 2♦ so I think that you should bid 1♠ with that hand. 1♥ and then reverse to 1♠ might be a possibility, or you might have to start with 2♠ if the hand is too strong for 1♠, but that's a bid ugly so if playing the American style I think you have to agree that 1♠ can be this strong.
A3 and A4: 2♦ and then raise partner's major to game. If partner bids something else, 3♠ should be forcing.
A5: People tend to bid 1♥ but it means that you may have to rebid 2♥ over patner's 2♦. So I think I prefer 1♠.
B1: 2NT. Or maybe pass if you are a Maverick. 2♦ or 2♥ in some styles but I wouldn't try that undiscussed.
B2: If playing NFB or Switch you bid 2♥ as you can then pass partner's scrambling 2♠. Playing standard methods I think you bid 2♠ as partner can't scramble.
B3: Apparently we play weak NT and 5card majors. I am not sure how this works, Fred once said that he bid 2NT with this hand when he played that style but according to a poll on BBF some time ago this is not what most forum posters do. This hand may then be boarderline between 2M and 3♣. Which major you bid may depend on your freebid system, as above.

[thepossum]

I am going to make a fool of myself. Not intentionally. Just likely
I really don't have much of a clue but....

A1 Pass
A2 1 Heart
A3 1 Spade
A4 1 heart
A5 Pass
B1 Pass
B2 2 Hearts
B3 What does 3 clubs mean. Otherwise game in hearts or spades

[helene_t]

thepossum, on 2023-May-18, 05:08, said:

A1 Pass
[....]
A5 Pass

Pass on A5 is an interesting choice. Sometimes letting them make 1♦x+2 or whatever is less of a disaster than whatever would happen if you bid. Sometimes opps believe you and rescue you.

My suspicion is that most of the times it doesn't work so well. Sometimes partner has 17+ with a long major and doubled in the hope that you don't have the 6-card diamonds that is normally required for passing the double.

And sometimes partner will think that you have the diamonds stuffed for your penalty pass so they will bid a hopeless 3NT after opps rescue you.

Pass on A1, on the other hand, doesn't make much sense to me. You have a completely normal hand for a 1♠ response so there's no need to do anything speculative.

[Gilithin]

Over a takeout double, the rule with both majors is spades first, so A1 is an obvious 1♠. The vast majority of the world play a minor suit cue as forcing to suit agreement, so A2 might be considered a bare minimum cue->3M. A3 and A4 are both typical cue->4M hands, although some pairs might prefer a 4♣ splinter if they play those light. A5 usually sees 1♥ in the club (combined with some UI) and 1♠ in serious tournaments (planning to rebid 2♥ over partner's 2♦) though it always surprises me to see a few votes for 1NT on such hands in magazine expert forum panels. There is actually a (now rare) response structure available that uses 1♥ as a Herbert Negative, which will suit you if this hand keeps you up at night but is generally not regarded positively by modern bidding theorists. For B1-3, my suggestion is to open all balanced hands outside of NT range with 1♣ (ideally in combination with TWalsh) thus rendering the discussion moot.

[paulsim]

I'm sorry, my examples were not the best of the world ilustrating the question.

The solely intention was if there is a consensus about what major bid when you have both majors 4/4
Thtat's all. Your have 4/4 and you think you have to bid a major: you dont have a cuebid avalilable or something else



which one? Always spades, always hearts, best major, it depends on:¿?
Your hand is 4432 and you do have to bid a major (because you think you have, so wich one?)

1D (X) p _?
2D (X) p _?
3D (X) p _?
4D (X) p _?


Negative double would follow the same principle when you have both majors and you do have to bid a major?


1C (2D) X
1D (2C) x
1C (3D) x
1D (3C) x
1D (4C) x





Rebiding principle. and bid spades so if you have to bid again, you can bid hearts?
Or space principle and bid hearts when weak? Maybe the answere can depend on strengh?


I mean, for example.

I think it is standard to answere 1S with 4/4 and a weak hand to partner's takeout double.

Not sure if it would be the same response if the opening bid were a weak two. Still spades?

I read a Marty Bergens example answering 3H with a weak hand to a 3-level preempt doubled by partner (with 4/4 in the majors), but he doesn't mention why hearts and not spades.

Maybe is a partnership agreement, it doensn't really matters or I'm lacking something.