[A_FAT_Play]

I am an ACOL player who uses weak 1NT, but I suspect the problem is more general. I like using the Unassuming Cue Bid if I have 10+ pts and three card support to find out partner's strength if they overcall an opening bid e.g. 1♦ - 1♥- 1♠ -2♦. However, I don't know if you can do this if the opener bids 1NT. Can you cue bid 1NT e.g. 1NT - 2♥- 2♠ -2NT? If not, how do you find out more about partner's overcall if you are worried you could be missing a game?

[smerriman]

The answer to this really lies one step back; what defense are you playing when overcalling the 1NT opening?

There are a huge range of playable systems, and it's rare to play purely 'natural', especially with overcalls being pretty wide ranging. For example, one common system has 2♥ showing a two suited hand (hearts and a minor), with a 2NT response typically asking what partner's minor suit is.

Even when 2♥ promises hearts and hearts only, it is restricted by the definitions of other bids (eg a penalty double).

The continuations thus depend on the defense system in place to begin with, and sorting out what system you play has to be done first.

[michel444]

LOL i see the title look like a joke
Advancing overcall is a very interesting topic and i didn't find much on the subject.
I like your natural aproch to biding there are dozen of convention for defense biding over 1 NT and you use a normal overcall
when I make a desiciom to Make an overcall is not a decision bass on point but on loser and winnner
♣QJT9876 ♦XX ♥XX ♠XX I HAVE 3 POINT AND 8 LOSER !
THIS AN extrem hand but biding 2♣ not Vulnerable againts any 1 level opening is a good move
so before raising partner the question isnt how many point i have how many trick i can add to partner overcall .
I found in the book of BO Yin Yang his idea on advencing overcall
the general idea is some of the bid of Advencer are transfer to the next
in the sequence 1 ♦ 1♥ pass
1 ♠ natural spade
1NT natural no fit
2♣ natural
2♦ transfer to 2 ♥
2♥ heart support
2♠+ very good suit and ♥ suport

[DavidKok]

Most people play 2NT as some artificial asking bid over partner's overcall of 1NT anyway, and I'd keep the same agreement here. It isn't so much a cue as it is an asking bid.

[michel444]

smerriman, on 2022-September-30, 13:18, said:

The answer to this really lies one step back; what defense are you playing when overcalling the 1NT opening?

There are a huge range of playable systems, and it's rare to play purely 'natural', especially with overcalls being pretty wide ranging. For example, one common system has 2♥ showing a two suited hand (hearts and a minor), with a 2NT response typically asking what partner's minor suit is.

Even when 2♥ promises hearts and hearts only, it is restricted by the definitions of other bids (eg a penalty double).

The continuations thus depend on the defense system in place to begin with, and sorting out what system you play has to be done first.

the Dozen of gadget to bid after 1NT are Gadget most of them are more limiting your possibilty
many player use Double on weak NT showing a number of HPC some sacrifice the 2♣ overcall for landy and you still have 3 natural overcall

[A_FAT_Play]

Thanks for all the help thus far, although I'm not sure I've advanced very much! The group I play with currently eschew the various bells and whistles used to defend against 1NT openings (e.g. Landy etc.), and have thus far stuck to natural over calls. The problem recurred again today when the sequence 1NT-2♥-P -? occurred. Overcaller had 11 points and a five card ♥ suit. Overcaller's partner had 11 points and four card ♥ support. The partner wanted to invite rather than go straight to game. Had the original bid been in a suit he could just have used UCB. If he goes straight 4♥ there is a risk that partner is actually on the weak side. It might be said that, given that the overcall at the two level shows double-digit points and five of the suit, going straight to game is not much of a risk. However, the partnership was vulnerable, and going to game would still have been a bit of a shot in the dark. In the event responder bid 3♥ which risks being interpreted as 'level of the fit' and being passed. Is there anyway to improve or do we need to bite the bullet and introduce some type of convention?

[A_FAT_Play]

Thanks for all the help thus far, although I'm not sure I've advanced very much! The group I play with currently eschew the various bells and whistles used to defend against 1NT openings (e.g. Landy etc.), and have thus far stuck to natural over calls. The problem recurred again today when the sequence 1NT-2♥-P -? occurred. Overcaller had 11 points and a five card ♥ suit. Overcaller's partner had 11 points and four card ♥ support. The partner wanted to invite rather than go straight to game. Had the original bid been in a suit he could just have used UCB. If he goes straight 4♥ there is a risk that partner is actually on the weak side. It might be said that, given that the overcall at the two level shows double-digit points and five of the suit, going straight to game is not much of a risk. However, the partnership was vulnerable, and going to game would still have been a bit of a shot in the dark. In the event responder bid 3♥ which risks being interpreted as 'level of the fit' and being passed. Is there anyway to improve or do we need to bite the bullet and introduce some type of convention?

[pescetom]

A_FAT_Play, on 2022-December-02, 09:11, said:

Thanks for all the help thus far, although I'm not sure I've advanced very much! The group I play with currently eschew the various bells and whistles used to defend against 1NT openings (e.g. Landy etc.), and have thus far stuck to natural over calls. The problem recurred again today when the sequence 1NT-2♥-P -? occurred. Overcaller had 11 points and a five card ♥ suit. Overcaller's partner had 11 points and four card ♥ support. The partner wanted to invite rather than go straight to game. Had the original bid been in a suit he could just have used UCB. If he goes straight 4♥ there is a risk that partner is actually on the weak side. It might be said that, given that the overcall at the two level shows double-digit points and five of the suit, going straight to game is not much of a risk. However, the partnership was vulnerable, and going to game would still have been a bit of a shot in the dark. In the event responder bid 3♥ which risks being interpreted as 'level of the fit' and being passed. Is there anyway to improve or do we need to bite the bullet and introduce some type of convention?

Bidding to the level of fit is a convention
If you do not play it, and overcall 2♥ with natural strength limits as you say, then 3♥ by advancer is an invite, WTP?

[helene_t]

(1NT)-2♥-(pass)-?
Here, opponents aren't likely to re-enter the auction so you can just pass with a weak hand, and 3♥ is therefore a constructive raise. 2NT can then be a general forcing enquiry, or it can be natural NF, according to taste.

(1NT)-2♥-(2♠)-?
Here, 3♥ is competitive and you can then use 2NT to show a good raise. You could also invert it and play Lebensohl, for example.

[dokoko]

When you cuebid opponents suit it's usually obvious that you aren't willing to play it there (there are exception of course). So most would take this kind of bid as artificial.

This is not the same when opps open NT. While a direct cuebid would still be artificial (you could double them instead if you like no-trumps as strain), later NT bids may come in handy as natural.

However, many expert pairs have an agreement that most if not all 2NT bids in competition are artificial whether or not 1NT has been bid by the opponents before.

I wouldn't call this kind of treatment a cuebid because usually the meaning of the artificial NT bid depends on the general situation (whose hand is it etc.) but not on whether or not NT has been bid before by opps.

[dokoko]

A_FAT_Play, on 2022-December-02, 09:11, said:

Thanks for all the help thus far, although I'm not sure I've advanced very much! The group I play with currently eschew the various bells and whistles used to defend against 1NT openings (e.g. Landy etc.), and have thus far stuck to natural over calls. The problem recurred again today when the sequence 1NT-2♥-P -? occurred. Overcaller had 11 points and a five card ♥ suit. Overcaller's partner had 11 points and four card ♥ support. The partner wanted to invite rather than go straight to game. Had the original bid been in a suit he could just have used UCB. If he goes straight 4♥ there is a risk that partner is actually on the weak side. It might be said that, given that the overcall at the two level shows double-digit points and five of the suit, going straight to game is not much of a risk. However, the partnership was vulnerable, and going to game would still have been a bit of a shot in the dark. In the event responder bid 3♥ which risks being interpreted as 'level of the fit' and being passed. Is there anyway to improve or do we need to bite the bullet and introduce some type of convention?

After the partner of the 1NT opener passes your overcall there usually will be not much competition by the opponents (one opponent limited, the other did not enter the bidding). There is no need to preempt, as you will often be allowed to play at the two-level.

You should treat a raise as a natural constructive bid, as well as 2NT.