quick Astro question (not Aspro, Asptro, or pin-point Astro)
#1
Posted 2021-December-17, 03:46
(1N) - 2♣ - (no) - 2♦
(no) - 2♠ ?
where 2♣ = "hearts and a minor"
#2
Posted 2021-December-17, 04:05
44(50) is one possibility.
#3
Posted 2021-December-17, 05:46
Cyberyeti, on 2021-December-17, 04:05, said:
44(50) is one possibility.
Astro isn't as fashionable as it used to be, but I like it because it allows for hands with 4 in a major and 5 in a minor.
I have discussed this sequence with my partner, and our agreement is that it shows at least three spades and a willingness to play there as advancer is quite likely to have 4 or 5 Spades.
Over 2♣ which shows 9+ cards in Hearts and a minor, 2♦ denies more than two Hearts.
Overcaller has not more than 4 Hearts (else you bid 2♥ over 2♦), and overcaller's minor suit is not Diamonds (with 4 Hearts and 5 Diamonds you would pass 2♦)
So, overcaller has 4 Hearts and 5+ Clubs, but is prepared to play in 2♠ rather than simply bidding 3♣
Hence either 3=4=1=5, or as Cyberyeti says 4=4=0=5. Or maybe 3=4=0=6, but I'd bid 3♣ with that
#4
Posted 2021-December-17, 10:21
Douglas43, on 2021-December-17, 05:46, said:
I have discussed this sequence with my partner, and our agreement is that it shows at least three spades and a willingness to play there as advancer is quite likely to have 4 or 5 Spades.
Over 2♣ which shows 9+ cards in Hearts and a minor, 2♦ denies more than two Hearts.
Overcaller has not more than 4 Hearts (else you bid 2♥ over 2♦), and overcaller's minor suit is not Diamonds (with 4 Hearts and 5 Diamonds you would pass 2♦)
So, overcaller has 4 Hearts and 5+ Clubs, but is prepared to play in 2♠ rather than simply bidding 3♣
Hence either 3=4=1=5, or as Cyberyeti says 4=4=0=5. Or maybe 3=4=0=6, but I'd bid 3♣ with that
Not sure you can be that dogmatic that overcaller doesn't have diamonds, what does he do with a near double and 5 diamonds ? where he would want to raise diamonds to 3+ if partner really had them and is 4450/3451
#5
Posted 2021-December-18, 03:53
Cyberyeti, on 2021-December-17, 10:21, said:
Thanks Cyberyeti, fair point and a matter of style and agreement. Personally I'd pass over 2♦ with anything except a 5-6 red two-suiter, where I might bid 3♦. In the absence of major suit agreement, I tend to stop. But sorry to sound dogmatic.
#6
Posted 2021-December-18, 04:25
Douglas43, on 2021-December-18, 03:53, said:
Does make it difficult, we don't tend to like to double 1N with a void in a 3 suiter, so can have quite a good hand for the Astro (we play a different variant), so we need to have a way of bidding on, if this has to be 3♦ that's not so terrible, but 2♠ feels more descriptive.
#7
Posted 2021-December-18, 08:03
Cyberyeti, on 2021-December-18, 04:25, said:
Your Astro bids sound a bit more, er, robust than mine tend to be...
#9
Posted 2021-December-18, 10:00
Cyberyeti, on 2021-December-18, 08:38, said:
Which I would choose between Astro and double depends on both sides' vulnerability and my suit quality for the opening lead (KQxx, Axxx, KQJxx void is a more attractive double).
If I chose Astro I'd prefer 2♣ because the denial (next suit up denying more than two cards in the anchor major) is my 5 card suit, not a 4 card suit.
This might be down to playing more pairs than IMPs, but I tend to settle for a part-score at Astro unless my partner shows good support for my anchor major, or advances with 2NT (12+ hcp and enquiring into second suit).
This is purely personal opinion, I don't hold out as a great authority on Astro, I just like playing it.
#10
Posted 2021-December-18, 10:10
Douglas43, on 2021-December-18, 10:00, said:
If I chose Astro I'd prefer 2♣ because the denial (next suit up denying more than two cards in the anchor major) is my 5 card suit, not a 4 card suit.
This might be down to playing more pairs than IMPs, but I tend to settle for a part-score at Astro unless my partner shows good support for my anchor major, or advances with 2NT (12+ hcp and enquiring into second suit).
This is purely personal opinion, I don't hold out as a great authority on Astro, I just like playing it.
Can you criticise partner for bidding 2♦ with Axxxx, Kx, Axx, xxx as you play in 2♦ with 7♠ on ? Extreme example but ...
#12
Posted 2021-December-18, 13:53
Cyberyeti, on 2021-December-18, 10:10, said:
Yes, I would expect partner to do something other than a non-forcing I-want-to-play-here-if-you-have-diamonds bid with a hand where 3NT is on if I hold a decent Astro hand.
#13
Posted 2021-December-18, 14:59
AL78, on 2021-December-18, 13:53, said:
Yup, me too, but it was in response to
Quote
This is purely personal opinion, I don't hold out as a great authority on Astro, I just like playing it.
#14
Posted 2021-December-18, 15:17
Douglas43, on 2021-December-17, 05:46, said:
Try multi-Landy (it has several names), in which double shows 4M and a longer minor.
2C both majors
2D one major
2M 5M and side minor
You lose the penalty double so we don’t play it against weak notrump
Btw, I play this in a partnership where, 20+ years ago, we played Astro
#15
Posted 2021-December-19, 01:25
mikeh, on 2021-December-18, 15:17, said:
2C both majors
2D one major
2M 5M and side minor
You lose the penalty double so we don't play it against weak notrump
Btw, I play this in a partnership where, 20+ years ago, we played Astro
Thanks mikeh. Where I live weak NT is still much more popular than strong, but if more people take up 15-17 I'll probably make that switch. I play that defence with one partner, using double for penalties over weak NT (so we do miss the 4M/5m hands).
I should also add in response to the thread above that Cyberyeti's recommendation makes sense particularly at IMPs, but (apart from Lockdown League) I just play pairs and am very focused on scrapping for part-score, even if it means missing the odd grand slam
#16
Posted 2021-December-19, 04:06
mikeh, on 2021-December-18, 15:17, said:
2C both majors
2D one major
2M 5M and side minor
You lose the penalty double so we dont play it against weak notrump
Btw, I play this in a partnership where, 20+ years ago, we played Astro
I'm playing (trying to) that with a couple of partners, but in the UK weak NT land I play double as penalties. The only issue I find with multi-Landy is there are several continuations where responder wants to force which I struggle to remember on account of the fact that the convention comes up a single digit number of times a year.
#17
Posted 2021-December-19, 04:58