[johnson117]

New Tricks Bridge have posted the first episode of their Tournament Series on YouTube. World-class players battling it out in an individual tournament, with expert commentary as well as commentary from the players themselves. Search 'New Tricks Bridge' on YouTube

Any thoughts on how to reach a wider audience of BBO users with this would be very welcome

[hrothgar]

Thanks for posting this.

I'm really glad to see stuff like this happening. Its nice that bridge players are recognizing that platforms like You Tube are a much better way to distribute content than TV

[hrothgar]

First "episode" is pretty good

I like the format, but wish thngs were moving slightly faster

[johnson117]

The pace is a tricky (pardon the pun) balance between entertainment and learning opportunities from commentary. I guess the optimum ratio depends on the viewer's ability level. We will see if we can make things move a little faster in Episode 2.

[PhilG007]

 johnson117, on 2019-November-09, 02:12, said:

The pace is a tricky (pardon the pun) balance between entertainment and learning opportunities from commentary. I guess the optimum ratio depends on the viewer's ability level. We will see if we can make things move a little faster in Episode 2.

Some form of time control should be introduced as they have in chess tournaments where a set number of moves is required
within a specified time limit. If the required number of moves is not met,the game is forfeited. by the tardy player.

[hrothgar]

 PhilG007, on 2019-November-10, 08:06, said:

Some form of time control should be introduced as they have in chess tournaments where a set number of moves is required
within a specified time limit. If the required number of moves is not met,the game is forfeited. by the tardy player.

You do understand that this is a video, right?
And that it can be edited for time?

[johnson117]

 hrothgar, on 2019-November-10, 08:20, said:

You do understand that this is a video, right?
And that it can be edited for time?

Indeed. We can cut out any or all of the players' thinking time but to do so would a) be deceptive and a bad example to less experienced players, who often don't think for long enough and b) mean that we also had to cut out the equivalent amount of commentary and player voiceovers, which would mean losing a lot of valuable learning opportunities. It's a fine line, and we will try to get the balance right in future episodes

[chewylime]

 johnson117, on 2019-November-08, 10:58, said:

New Tricks Bridge have posted the first episode of their Tournament Series on YouTube. World-class players battling it out in an individual tournament, with expert commentary as well as commentary from the players themselves. Search 'New Tricks Bridge' on YouTube

Any thoughts on how to reach a wider audience of BBO users with this would be very welcome

Include a clickable link in your post! Might help people a little less familiar with navigating youtube and such

[AL78]

 johnson117, on 2019-November-10, 09:54, said:

a bad example to less experienced players, who often don't think for long enough ...

No, we can do without more trundlebunnies. At my local club we can't even do 24 boards in three hours because some pairs can't do anything briskly, or even at a moderate pace. It is like their brain is a Spectrum ZX81 when an Intel Core I7 is needed.

[kansas88]

I can't figure out what you're trying to do here or for whom you're doing it. Layout is confused, the audio levels are uneven, it's hard to figure out who's talking or to what they're referring, the cards are hard to see and the hands displayed with the players' faces are odd. (Who thought green clubs and orange diamonds was a good idea?)

There's a lot of "thinking" shown. Sure, sometimes there's voiceover but there's still a lot of footage of strangers cogitating and it makes time just, plain, stop.

There's more.

I watched on a 26" monitor but if I'd been on a phone or tablet I couldn't have made it past the first hand. I wouldn't have been able to see cards or positions or known who was whose partner. The sound would have been even more incomprehensible.

Look, I really do acknowledge the work you put into this. I think it's too ambitious and probably woefully underfunded.

Have you thought about doing what established bridge columnists have done since the dawn of time? Bring your players in, sure, and don't tell them you've given them "lesson" hands but let them play them as if they're random and script your game and post-game commentary to bring out the lesson presented.

Do that with a revamp of the format and some judicious editing-out of having to watch people with a mixture of confusion and poker faces and see if it works?

[johnson117]

 kansas88, on 2019-November-10, 23:26, said:

I can't figure out what you're trying to do here or for whom you're doing it. Layout is confused, the audio levels are uneven, it's hard to figure out who's talking or to what they're referring, the cards are hard to see and the hands displayed with the players' faces are odd. (Who thought green clubs and orange diamonds was a good idea?)

There's a lot of "thinking" shown. Sure, sometimes there's voiceover but there's still a lot of footage of strangers cogitating and it makes time just, plain, stop.

There's more.

I watched on a 26" monitor but if I'd been on a phone or tablet I couldn't have made it past the first hand. I wouldn't have been able to see cards or positions or known who was whose partner. The sound would have been even more incomprehensible.

Look, I really do acknowledge the work you put into this. I think it's too ambitious and probably woefully underfunded.

Have you thought about doing what established bridge columnists have done since the dawn of time? Bring your players in, sure, and don't tell them you've given them "lesson" hands but let them play them as if they're random and script your game and post-game commentary to bring out the lesson presented.

Do that with a revamp of the format and some judicious editing-out of having to watch people with a mixture of confusion and poker faces and see if it works?

What we are doing is producing some much-needed, and widely welcomed online bridge content that is educational and entertaining. The layout is necessary to accommodate the maximum amount of information on modern devices, and to minimise dead space on screen. Traditional screen ratios of 4:3, from old movie days and terrestrial tv in the 20th century have pretty much disappeared now, due to demand for widescreen movies and the dominance of handheld screens. The standard ratio is now widescreen 16:9 format (current trends are even more towards the horizontal). We want to reach as many viewers as possible so we need to work with this format and the approach we have taken is the cleanest way of ensuring that all information is clearly visible to all.
During player voiceovers, the player who is speaking remains in colour and the other three are in black and white. This is quite a subtle change and in the next version of the video that we post, there will be a more obvious signifier to address this point. The display of hands with four colour suits is necessary to make them visible against the background and not at all uncommon or difficult to get used to. The partnerships are clearly designated by the compass points in the central triangles and the thousands of people who have watched and enjoyed the video have done so on a variety of devices without being troubled by the problems you are outlining. Yes, there are some inconsistencies in volume which we will address in future episodes and as I have already said about the pauses - it's a balance between information and entertainment on which we will do more work.
You say we are "probably woefully underfunded". Let me address that point. When we set out to make this series, we obtained quotes from two tv production companies to do the job we are now doing ourselves. One was for £250,000 and the other for £1.2m. So we had a choice. a) Give up - there is no way we could raise that sort of money to make programmes about bridge. b) do the very best job we can with an almost exclusively volunteer team so that we can make the series on a modest budget and simultaneously fund the creation of our tutorial materials to give to schools for free so that we get young people interested in playing. Whilst there may be the odd imperfection in the resulting videos, I think that the vast majority of bridge players who are genuinely interested having as many people as possible enjoy and learn the game, would probably vote for b.

[johnson117]

 johnson117, on 2019-November-11, 04:30, said:

What we are doing is producing some much-needed, and widely welcomed online bridge content that is educational and entertaining. The layout is necessary to accommodate the maximum amount of information on modern devices, and to minimise dead space on screen. Traditional screen ratios of 4:3, from old movie days and terrestrial tv in the 20th century have pretty much disappeared now, due to demand for widescreen movies and the dominance of handheld screens. The standard ratio is now widescreen 16:9 format (current trends are even more towards the horizontal). We want to reach as many viewers as possible so we need to work with this format and the approach we have taken is the cleanest way of ensuring that all information is clearly visible to all.
During player voiceovers, the player who is speaking remains in colour and the other three are in black and white. This is quite a subtle change and in the next version of the video that we post, there will be a more obvious signifier to address this point. The display of hands with four colour suits is necessary to make them visible against the background and not at all uncommon or difficult to get used to. The partnerships are clearly designated by the compass points in the central triangles and the thousands of people who have watched and enjoyed the video have done so on a variety of devices without being troubled by the problems you are outlining. Yes, there are some inconsistencies in volume which we will address in future episodes and as I have already said about the pauses - it's a balance between information and entertainment on which we will do more work.
You say we are "probably woefully underfunded". Let me address that point. When we set out to make this series, we obtained quotes from two tv production companies to do the job we are now doing ourselves. One was for £250,000 and the other for £1.2m. So we had a choice. a) Give up - there is no way we could raise that sort of money to make programmes about bridge. b) do the very best job we can with an almost exclusively volunteer team so that we can make the series on a modest budget and simultaneously fund the creation of our tutorial materials to give to schools for free so that we get young people interested in playing. Whilst there may be the odd imperfection in the resulting videos, I think that the vast majority of bridge players who are genuinely interested having as many people as possible enjoy and learn the game, would probably vote for b.

[johnson117]

Sorry - one more thing that the powers that be at BBO might enjoy - you say "Who thought green clubs and orange diamonds was a good idea?". Click 'reply' to this post and take a look at the options that come up above the text box - there are some suit symbols there........

[hrothgar]

FWIW, the folks producing these videos have a Go Fund Me page

https://www.gofundme...cks-bridge-club

Personally, I think that they are doing some interesting stuff and folks might consider throwing some money their way.

[johnson117]

 chewylime, on 2019-November-10, 10:26, said:

Include a clickable link in your post! Might help people a little less familiar with navigating youtube and such

Thanks for that - here is the link My link

[kansas88]

 johnson117, on 2019-November-11, 04:57, said:

Sorry - one more thing that the powers that be at BBO might enjoy - you say "Who thought green clubs and orange diamonds was a good idea?". Click 'reply' to this post and take a look at the options that come up above the text box - there are some suit symbols there........

I read this and your other replies and, yeah, I'd noticed the quaint suit colors before but I don't think I'll withdraw my question, who thought it was a good idea(?).

I know what you're trying to do. You're thinking, "we play bridge, we like it a lot, we don't understand why everybody doesn't, let's do something to fix that." By the way, did you know that you've got the whole of the ACBL working against you? It will pay lip service to indulging yours and others little electronic fantasies and delusions of importance but award you nothing for any of your individual accomplishments, giving overwhelming weight to in-person assemblies of warm bodies. I rather imagine you're probably that way yourselves, no? Asking on BBO how to get more BBOers involved but knowing what you want is to make people take up the game and play it in a room with living, breathing people? Don't take it too severely when I characterize that as disingenuous.

You can't use the internet to promote bridge if what you're promoting is leaving the internet to get anywhere in bridge. That's one of the things that's most jarring about watching your videos: seeing the people who are playing bridge. It's not just uninteresting; it's off-putting. Watching people think is like watching grass grow. Sure, you try to pare it down but it's even more tedious and unreal when you watch bridge pros think because they've trained themselves to be impassive, poker faced as it's said, demonstrative of a presumed control of emotions in favor of pure intellectualism and reasoning.

The internet will not kill bridge. Live bridge, rather, the insistence on playing live in order to obtain any money or recognition will kill bridge as the population ages and dies. Sure, there'll always be folks who are thrilled by the roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd. Who'll pine for the good old days when they knew a guy who knew a guy who could remember every card in every hand he played 30 years ago.

That's enough. Any more ranting and raving just makes me look and feel like I'm being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable. I commend your efforts. I wish you the best. I'm on YouTube often and I'll check back to see how you're doing.

[hrothgar]

 kansas88, on 2019-November-11, 10:21, said:

I read this and your other replies and, yeah, I'd noticed the quaint suit colors before but I don't think I'll withdraw my question, who thought it was a good idea(?).

I know what you're trying to do. You're thinking, "we play bridge, we like it a lot, we don't understand why everybody doesn't, let's do something to fix that." By the way, did you know that you've got the whole of the ACBL working against you? It will pay lip service to indulging yours and others little electronic fantasies and delusions of importance but award you nothing for any of your individual accomplishments, giving overwhelming weight to in-person assemblies of warm bodies. I rather imagine you're probably that way yourselves, no? Asking on BBO how to get more BBOers involved but knowing what you want is to make people take up the game and play it in a room with living, breathing people? Don't take it too severely when I characterize that as disingenuous.

You can't use the internet to promote bridge if what you're promoting is leaving the internet to get anywhere in bridge. That's one of the things that's most jarring about watching your videos: seeing the people who are playing bridge. It's not just uninteresting; it's off-putting. Watching people think is like watching grass grow. Sure, you try to pare it down but it's even more tedious and unreal when you watch bridge pros think because they've trained themselves to be impassive, poker faced as it's said, demonstrative of a presumed control of emotions in favor of pure intellectualism and reasoning.

The internet will not kill bridge. Live bridge, rather, the insistence on playing live in order to obtain any money or recognition will kill bridge as the population ages and dies. Sure, there'll always be folks who are thrilled by the roar of the greasepaint and the smell of the crowd. Who'll pine for the good old days when they knew a guy who knew a guy who could remember every card in every hand he played 30 years ago.

That's enough. Any more ranting and raving just makes me look and feel like I'm being disagreeable for the sake of being disagreeable. I commend your efforts. I wish you the best. I'm on YouTube often and I'll check back to see how you're doing.

My impression is that New Tricks Bridge is creating a variety of content. Some of this is intended to teach the game to novice players. They have different content for more advanced players. It feels as if you are looking at content intended for the later players but evaluating it because it's not exciting enough to attract new people to the game. For better or worse, bridge is a game that requires thought / planning/ concentration.

In addition, while I am a big fan of electronic playing environments, its unclear to me that the distinction between F2F and Electronic competition is crucial for what this video series is hoping to achieve. I see nothing strange about trying to get a bunch of players from BBO interested in a video series that is using physical cards.

[johnson117]

 hrothgar, on 2019-November-11, 07:47, said:

FWIW, the folks producing these videos have a Go Fund Me page

https://www.gofundme...cks-bridge-club

Personally, I think that they are doing some interesting stuff and folks might consider throwing some money their way.

Thank you hrothgar - your support is much appreciated

[johnson117]

 hrothgar, on 2019-November-11, 10:31, said:

My impression is that New Tricks Bridge is creating a variety of content. Some of this is intended to teach the game to novice players. They have different content for more advanced players. It feels as if you are looking at content intended for the later players but evaluating it because it's not exciting enough to attract new people to the game. For better or worse, bridge is a game that requires thought / planning/ concentration.

In addition, while I am a big fan of electronic playing environments, its unclear to me that the distinction between F2F and Electronic competition is crucial for what this video series is hoping to achieve. I see nothing strange about trying to get a bunch of players from BBO interested in a video series that is using physical cards.

Well said . Our content is about providing opportunities for learning about the game in an enjoyable way - either by watching the experts for the more experienced or watching animated tutorials (which make understanding easier than books or online text) for beginners. Where those players go on to play, whether in clubs or online - for most of us it's a little of both - is not important..

[barmar]

 kansas88, on 2019-November-11, 10:21, said:

I read this and your other replies and, yeah, I'd noticed the quaint suit colors before but I don't think I'll withdraw my question, who thought it was a good idea(?).

Bidding boxes use 4 colors, and there are frequent requests for BBO to adopt them. On small devices it sometimes be hard to distinguish spades and clubs.