Asking for the queen twice
#1
Posted 2019-November-06, 02:45
4NT-5♥
5♠
5♥=2 kc, no Q
5♠= Q?
#3
Posted 2019-November-06, 06:52
helene_t, on 2019-November-06, 02:45, said:
4NT-5♥
5♠
5♥=2 kc, no Q
5♠= Q?
Perhaps ...
- 5♠ = S/O ♠s agreed.
But you need agreements. For example if ♦ are agreed as trumps then you might define...
5♠/6♣ = ASK for 3rd round control in that suit. Confirms all key cards.
5N = ASK for Ks. Confirms all key-cards.
6♦ = S/O
#4
Posted 2019-November-06, 08:36
helene_t, on 2019-November-06, 02:45, said:
4NT-5♥
5♠
5♥=2 kc, no Q
5♠= Q?
In stone-age Blackwood, the next suit would be an attempt to sign-off in 5NT.
I don't think that you should ever bid 5♠ without a firm agreement with partner and I don't have one. But I think that such an agreement should (1) confirm that all key cards are present and suggest a Grand Slam (2) Show (or ask about) a spade control - if second-round control is known, then third-round control.
#5
Posted 2019-November-06, 14:20
Or it could show a second round spade control. Or ask for it. Or be some kind of generic GST, maybe specifically asking for ♠J or extra trump length, or just for extra quick tricks somewhere.
Or it could be undefined.
#7
Posted 2019-November-06, 15:56
Tramticket, on 2019-November-06, 08:36, said:
You're right, I had forgotten that. Maybe GIB plays it.
Tramticket, on 2019-November-06, 08:36, said:
Seems to me a marginal gain, especially if you already play Specific Suit Ask.
#9
Posted 2019-November-07, 10:38
Tramticket, on 2019-November-07, 04:05, said:
If the concern is RKCB with trumps ♥ and 4NT as the Keycard Ask (which is a SNAFU I agree, especially if you play 0314) then it might be better just to define 5♠ as the (specific) King Ask (5NT reply = K♠).
Just thinking out loud, as there must be some reason why people don't do this
#10
Posted 2019-November-07, 17:47
pescetom, on 2019-November-07, 10:38, said:
Just thinking out loud, as there must be some reason why people don't do this
Most pairs in the Netherlands play that way. Even in stone-age Biedermeijer, "streamlined king ask" is introduced before RKCB.
#11
Posted 2019-November-09, 08:22
helene_t, on 2019-November-07, 17:47, said:
Wow. In that case, I will play that way too! A small gain, but at no price except memory load.
Only for hearts, as we use a Kickback for the minors so repeating the asking strain costs little there and helps maintain some clarity.