[lamford]

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Standard methods. Seniors Camrose. How do you play this double and do you remove it?

[Winstonm]

lamford, on 2018-May-19, 12:25, said:

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Standard methods. Seniors Camrose. How do you play this double and do you remove it?

I was taught that the second double was still takeout. I bid 4S.

[ggwhiz]

Winstonm, on 2018-May-19, 12:36, said:

I was taught that the second double was still takeout. I bid 4S.

Me too but we never pull unless we think there is a live chance to make what we bid.

I do think 4♠ has a shot here with a potential double fit and sure hope there was no tank involved as it's pretty close.

[FelicityR]

Partner wasn't doubling for penalties on the first round, and he isn't doubling on the second round either: pull

[rmnka447]

I'm bidding 4 ♠ also.

The opponents have values and an 8+ card fit, meaning partner shouldn't have a ♥ stack. If partner wants to defend 4 ♥, he/she should pass. If partner has made some initial off shape double that's on them. But I wouldn't be surprised to find partner with something like ♠ AKJx ♥ - ♦ QJx ♣ A10xxx wanting to compete further or push them up a level.

[apollo1201]

Partner guarantees something close to a 4H opening X: take-out but probably setting opps facing a weakish flattish hand (although the latter is less sure...).
The 4252 distrib and nice D suit convince me to bid, more trying to rather than being sure to make, though.
Opener is probably weak and distributional. With some luck I push them to 5 or it is a good save...

[lamford]

apollo1201, on 2018-May-19, 14:26, said:

Partner guarantees something close to a 4H opening X: take-out but probably setting opps facing a weakish flattish hand (although the latter is less sure...).
The 4252 distrib and nice D suit convince me to bid, more trying to rather than being sure to make, though.
Opener is probably weak and distributional. With some luck I push them to 5 or it is a good save...

Thanks all. I pulled to 4S, but partner had AJxx xx Axx AKQx and we were one off in 4S. 4H was two off. I think partner should pass on that hand, but partner was of the old school where partner is just showing extras.

[MrAce]

lamford, on 2018-May-19, 15:43, said:

Thanks all. I pulled to 4S, but partner had AJxx xx Axx AKQx and we were one off in 4S. 4H was two off. I think partner should pass on that hand, but partner was of the old school where partner is just showing extras.

I think pd just did fine. That has nothing to do with being old school. He has a take out shape and he also has values. Bidding 4♠ with our hand is also OK or at least reasonable.
Going down in 4♠ in such a competitive auction, while they also go down, is not unexpected, just go to next hand and don't try to create weird rules because of this hand.

[Phil]

Sorry, not a fan of the 2nd double. Actually Im pretty sure I hate it.

Very fortunate he caught us with a card and a spade fit.

[Tramticket]

Phil, on 2018-May-20, 22:00, said:

Sorry, not a fan of the 2nd double. Actually Im pretty sure I hate it.

Very fortunate he caught us with a card and a spade fit.

I guess that partner has no right to expect anything at all from us (there do seem to be a lot of points in this pack), so he can only count on the tricks in his own hand in defence. Nevertheless he does have reasonable chances of defeating 4♥ if the three aces and king of clubs stand up. But the double is still take-out (with extra strength) and with his balanced hand, he doesn't have much playing strength and needs a lot of shape in our hand to make a four/five level contract.

Thinking it through, I have to agree that it is not a great 2nd double - but sad top say, I probably would have doubled as well.

Given that West doubled, I would have passed as East. You lack shape to expect 4♠ to make.

[cherdano]

I'd double a second time with partner's hand but I'd really be curious what top players would do. It does seem quite likely that it turns a plus into a minus. That's 5-7 IMPs out even if nobody doubles.

[Winstonm]

I seem to remember Reese writing that the second double should be more of the same - even more takeout oriented. But maybe I am dreaming I read that.

[lamford]

cherdano, on 2018-May-21, 09:59, said:

I'd double a second time with partner's hand but I'd really be curious what top players would do. It does seem quite likely that it turns a plus into a minus. That's 5-7 IMPs out even if nobody doubles.

It did turn a plus into a minus. Of course the 2NT bidder, Forrester, was "operating" with a weakish raise to 3 - x QJxx QJx xxxxx. His partner will now double 4S of course!

[Phil]

Tramticket, on 2018-May-21, 05:50, said:

I guess that partner has no right to expect anything at all from us (there do seem to be a lot of points in this pack), so he can only count on the tricks in his own hand in defence. Nevertheless he does have reasonable chances of defeating 4♥ if the three aces and king of clubs stand up. But the double is still take-out (with extra strength) and with his balanced hand, he doesn't have much playing strength and needs a lot of shape in our hand to make a four/five level contract.

Thinking it through, I have to agree that it is not a great 2nd double - but sad top say, I probably would have doubled as well.

Given that West doubled, I would have passed as East. You lack shape to expect 4♠ to make.

Partner's 2nd double is just as much takeout as the first. Surely if we had had another Ace we would have bid 3S already.

That ace has appeared in partner's hand and with a double fit, 4S seems clear to me.

Partner had the death holding in hearts. X or xxx would be more valuable.

[neilkaz]

I also bid 4♠