[virgosrock]

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in this case I suppose 4NT pass is ok.
Problem I have is both dbl and 5C show 25+. I cant bid either because who knows what RamBBO will do. So I marked time with 4NT which was 18+ hoping...
I think dbl and 5c should be 18+.

vRock

[steve2005]

The problem is there are so many situations where you want to take a bid but it shows some ridiculous number of points as you are assumed to bidding to make opposite a partner who could have 0 points,

You are not permitted to balance, sacrifice or compete on reasonable hands. This is separate from the 4N issue which Gib just doesn't understand.

[wbartley]

How is pass okay? What do you take? Three tricks in 4NT?

The explanation even says that 4NT shows the minors, unlike in my example where it doesn't even recognize 4NT as a takeout bid.

[smerriman]

wbartley, on 2018-April-08, 11:40, said:

The explanation even says that 4NT shows the minors, unlike in my example where it doesn't even recognize 4NT as a takeout bid.

No, it doesn't. The description says that 2NT shows the minors. 4NT shows nothing. GIB doesn't play 4NT takeouts - the simple solution is, stop bidding it!

[johnu]

Well done GIB to only show 18+ points for 4NT (5♣ and double are still problems) instead of something like 25-28. This is a solid leap forward in bidding theory.

[wbartley]

smerriman, on 2018-April-08, 14:18, said:

No, it doesn't. The description says that 2NT shows the minors. 4NT shows nothing. GIB doesn't play 4NT takeouts - the simple solution is, stop bidding it!

It amended the explanation. I assumed, probably incorrectly, that if it amends the explanation it recognizes the bid. The explanation does say that 4NT shows at least 55 in the minors and 18+ points.

By the way, some of us post here because we're trying to help make GIB better, not to know what bids to avoid.

[pigpenz]

http://www.bridgebas...n/page__st__120

according to this GIB update its supposed to recognize that 2NT is minors and 4NT continues the takeout of the minors

from D EVA
Changes:
GIB will now always pass after opening 2 of a major, responder bid 2N, opener bid anything, and responder bid 4 of the major. Before, it was sometimes bidding blackwood there.
GIB will sometimes show a queen as a feature after a weak 2 bid, in order to do something other than rebidding his suit on good hands.
After 1x - (2y) -, responder will properly bid 3 of a new suit on hands he had been passing, like 1♠ (2♥) 3♣ with 6 clubs and an 11 count where before it just passed. Also on the same auction, he will only bid 2N with the proper shapes now (before he would sometimes do it on weird shapes like 3055).
Fixed a bug where GIB was sometimes passing 4NT bids that were obviously for the minors, like when someone bid unusual 2NT and then 4NT next round.
Fixed a bug that was causing GIB to sometimes pass hands that obviously should be opened either 1 or 4 of a major.
Improved definition of when certain jumps in competition are natural and when they are splinter bids.
GIB no longer plays lebensohl after takeout doubles of weak 2 bids when the takeout doubler is a passed hand. 2NT there is natural now.
Improved the requirements for GIB to show majors with a 2♦ overcall of a 1NT opening (before it had restrictive suit quality requirements even when the hand was strong and shapely).
Other minor fixes and improvements.

[smerriman]

wbartley, on 2018-April-08, 15:45, said:

It amended the explanation. I assumed, probably incorrectly, that if it amends the explanation it recognizes the bid. The explanation does say that 4NT shows at least 55 in the minors and 18+ points.

Points for bids like these are just automatically generated and not normally related to the actual hand (I think jdonn said they would have preferred not to always have to describe numbers of points, since in scenarios like these points are somewhat meaningless, but it was a requirement for some reason so high level bids normally just carry some arbitrary point constraint).

wbartley, on 2018-April-08, 15:45, said:

By the way, some of us post here because we're trying to help make GIB better, not to know what bids to avoid.

Yeah, I know, but this seems to have been posted so many times recently (and see the topic title) that it was implied the first 999 times were just glitches and something else was expected to happen the 1000th time Once or twice seems enough to get the point!

Though in saying that, pigpenz is right, this was meant to have been added, I forgot that..

[pigpenz]

yes I used to post problems with 4NT takeout several years ago, to my knowledge
it at least now plays 4NT as take out.

[virgosrock]

pigpenz, on 2018-April-08, 17:55, said:

yes I used to post problems with 4NT takeout several years ago, to my knowledge
it at least now plays 4NT as take out.

apologies to you and smerriman for re-posting this issue. I actually was pleasantly surprised to see the 4NT blurb say 18+ and 5C+ and 5d+ which i had not seen before. I do have in my gmail atleast 10,000 emails from the last decade filled with choice epithets to support@bbo.com. Quite a few had this 4NT nonsense.

vrock

[pigpenz]

no problems
I cant count the times I have played 4NT down 8 in the past.

[johnu]

smerriman, on 2018-April-08, 16:45, said:

Points for bids like these are just automatically generated and not normally related to the actual hand (I think jdonn said they would have preferred not to always have to describe numbers of points, since in scenarios like these points are somewhat meaningless, but it was a requirement for some reason so high level bids normally just carry some arbitrary point constraint).

It would be one thing if GIB were programmed well enough to know that points are meaningless in a particular auction, but it's hopeless if GIB partner thinks you actually do have 28 points and bids a slam with a totally random 5 or 6 count. I'm sure (almost?) everyone has been in a position when they wanted to bid at a high level and were afraid GIB would bid a hopeless slam with a random scattering of points.

[virgosrock]

johnu, on 2018-April-09, 12:58, said:

It would be one thing if GIB were programmed well enough to know that points are meaningless in a particular auction, but it's hopeless if GIB partner thinks you actually do have 28 points and bids a slam with a totally random 5 or 6 count. I'm sure (almost?) everyone has been in a position when they wanted to bid at a high level and were afraid GIB would bid a hopeless slam with a random scattering of points.

I think the problem is the pass and murder partner approach. This is VERY common.
Maybe the bug is if you have passed now downplay your points when partner takes action.
How many times have we been in either play 4C or be in 6C.

vrock

[jdonn]

I don't know why this happened. I thought it was fixed too now. I know the programmer has been made aware.

[pigpenz]

jdonn, on 2018-April-12, 13:23, said:

I don't know why this happened. I thought it was fixed too now. I know the programmer has been made aware.

could be the variance in the type of bots used.