[RMB1]

lamford, on 2017-February-26, 08:08, said:

The hands do not matter. A player removes the 1NT card just clear of the bidding box, but then realises that he has agreed to play a strong NT, not his usual weak NT, and he has a 14 count and he asks if he can change his bid. The TD is called and rules the bid is made, and that the request to change it is UI to his partner. His partner announces it as 15-17 and invites with a 9 count, a normal action opposite a strong NT. The player has AI (he knows that he has opened a strong NT on a 14-count), and UI from the announcement, as he knows his partner is inviting opposite a strong NT. He passes and game would have gone down. Do you adjust?

What if?

A player removes the 1NT card just clear of the bidding box, but then realises that he has agreed to play a strong NT, not his usual weak NT, and he has a 14 count. The player knows Law 25 and does not ask if he can change his bid. The TD is not called and the player puts the 1NT card on the table. His partner announces it as 15-17 and invites with a 9 count. The player has AI (he knows that he has opened a strong NT on a 14-count), and UI from the announcement, as he knows his partner is inviting opposite a strong NT. He passes and game would have gone down.

When asked, the player says "I forgot we were playing a strong NT when I took the card from the box but I remembered before I put the card on the table, and before partner's announcement. There was a slight hitch after the card was clear of the box while I realised the call was made and it was too late to change."
Do you adjust?

[lamford]

RMB1, on 2017-February-26, 10:45, said:

What if?

A player removes the 1NT card just clear of the bidding box, but then realises that he has agreed to play a strong NT, not his usual weak NT, and he has a 14 count. The player knows Law 25 and does not ask if he can change his bid. The TD is not called and the player puts the 1NT card on the table. His partner announces it as 15-17 and invites with a 9 count. The player has AI (he knows that he has opened a strong NT on a 14-count), and UI from the announcement, as he knows his partner is inviting opposite a strong NT. He passes and game would have gone down.

When asked, the player says "I forgot we were playing a strong NT when I took the card from the box but I remembered before I put the card on the table, and before partner's announcement. There was a slight hitch after the card was clear of the box while I realised the call was made and it was too late to change."
Do you adjust?

I think you have to believe the player. Even if there was no slight hitch. But there have been a host of rulings when a player states he remembered before his partner announced and the TD has decided that this is self-serving. This is one of the problems with announcements. The laws state:

85A1 In determining the facts the Director shall base his view on the balance of probabilities, which is to say in accordance with the weight of the evidence he is able to collect.

[sanst]

No. What you should do is interrogate the player away from the table and also ask the other players whether there was a slight hitch. Based on what they tell you, you make a decision. If you believe the player and certainly when the others corroborate his statement, you let the result stand, if not, you adjust.

[blackshoe]

The statement is self-serving, whatever the director "decides" about that. The question is not whether it's self-serving, it's how much weight to give to it. As to whether the director "believes" the player, well, in one sense that's the essence of the decision the TD has to make. In another sense, the alternative is for the director to "believe" the player is lying. We should not go there, nor should we need to go there.

[ggwhiz]

I get from this that the opener realized their mistake without any prompting (or announcement) from their partner who then correctly invited with a 9 count despite having the UI that their partner has a weak notrump.

I play where it is not uncommon to upgrade a 14 count to a 15-17 notrump and decline invitations after that so I fail to see a problem here. In fact, opener claiming I upgraded this one instead of being honest about the misbid would give me pause and responder has done nothing wrong and also leads me to believe they really did notice the mistake without help.

[barmar]

How would anyone even know that there was something worth calling the TD about in this case? From the slight hitch when he's making the bid? Players aren't required to call attention to their own irregularities.

I suppose if the player mentions what happened during the post mortem, an opponent might make an issue of it.

[lamford]

barmar, on 2017-February-26, 21:25, said:

How would anyone even know that there was something worth calling the TD about in this case? From the slight hitch when he's making the bid? Players aren't required to call attention to their own irregularities.

I suppose if the player mentions what happened during the post mortem, an opponent might make an issue of it.

In the case referred by my correspondent, the opener had a 13 count, and there was no hitch. She stated that she realised after taking out the bid and before placing it on the table, and she was NOT woken up by the announcement. Partner had a 9 count and nine tricks made anyway! The opponents accepted that.