[Vampyr]

 wank, on 2016-April-15, 17:23, said:

majors score more than minors. you only clearly lose out by bidding 2H when partner's 22 in the majors and even then if he's 2236 you're no worse off than passing 2D. 2D leaves you in a worse fit opposite (32)26, 3325, 3334 and an equal length but worse scoring fit opposite (32)44, 3343 and opposite all the hands with 5D you're normally going to score as well in a 43 major fit.

anyway with an 11 count you should still bid 2NT over 2d because no trumps scores considerably better than diamonds whether it's the 1,2,3,4,5,6 or 7 level.

I don't think it's a particularly good idea to open 1NT with 2-2 in the majors. Partner might not only bid garbage Stayman, but also 4♣ (pick a major) or the like.

[nige1]

 silvr bull, on 2016-April-15, 04:42, said:

.

Playing 12-14 NT at matchpoints with a good partner against unknown opps, is your hand worth an invitation to game?

---

Assuming that 1N - 2♣ - 2♦ - 2♥ is "Pass/correct", IMO Stayman is fine.

Now after 1N - 2♣ - 2♠, I rank

• 3♠ = INV. 7-8 losers, top cards, so worth a try even at MPs.
• Pass = NAT. At MPs, games should be better than 50-50. Kuhchung might well be right, in practice,
• 4♠ = S/O. Landy game-try. Worth consideration at imps, but wrong at MPs

[wanoff]

 Vampyr, on 2016-April-15, 23:13, said:

I don't think it's a particularly good idea to open 1NT with 2-2 in the majors. Partner might not only bid garbage Stayman, but also 4♣ (pick a major) or the like.

It's not a particularly good idea to open 1C with 2245

[silvr bull]

---

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

[1eyedjack]

Or he could make 3S as another alternative solution

[PhilG007]

I have been in this situation countless times and have profited by it.
Partner opened 1NT (both weak and strong) I bid 2♣ Stayman
Partner responded in my major and I bid game.It transpired that we were missing the top
three trump honors. Partner had replied holding xxxx in our suit. Result we were set 1 or 2
tricks. This clearly shows that Stayman,while a very useful convention, has its flaws and
should be treated with caution.

[PhilG007]

 silvr bull, on 2016-April-16, 03:00, said:

---

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

The North hand actually has 12 points. 1 point being added for the club doubleton as a major suit fit has been found
so a game invite of 3♠ is perfectly justified. South should only go to game if he is maximum for his NT opening.

[kenberg]

 silvr bull, on 2016-April-16, 03:00, said:

---

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

I was one of the many who invited, in fact it was unanimous the last time I looked.

But another point.

In hands such as this, I view it as a serious error to afterward explain to partner why he should not have invited. Even if it is not unanimous to invite, I can't imagine anyone thinking that it is a clear error to invite. And, as one eye above suggests, and GIB confirms, there are nine tricks available. Is it then profitable to ask partner why he did not make 3♠?

Many bridge decisions, in bidding and play, are close calls. We are all only so good at these. "You should not have invited", "You should have made it", does no good whatsoever in my opinion. Save the discussions for the times, frequent enough in my experience, when there has been a misunderstanding of intended meaning.


Checking back on judgment through later friendly discussion is another matter. Views from others can be helpful.

Forgive the preachy tone, but I feel strongly about this.

[Tramticket]

Yes, agree with Kenberg, these are tricky judgements. At pairs you are hoping to get it right more than 50% of the time. Many times it will be wrong - don't beat each other up.

I want partner to bid on with most decent 13 counts (this is NOT a decent 13!), so I will often pass 1NT with 11. But if you are going to pass, it is on the first round, not once you have found the spade fit.

[jogs]

 kuhchung, on 2016-April-15, 12:03, said:

you have somewhere from 23-25 highs, and you're going to risk playing 3S with 23-24 in order to reach a magic 25 point game, which by the way, is not guaranteed to make, and it's matchpoints!

Game is probably between 43 to 48%. Also against most pair fields making 10 tricks will net a reasonable score. Give me plus scores.

[neilkaz]

 silvr bull, on 2016-April-16, 03:00, said:

---

I did invite, but Murphy's Law is still in force. After going down one at 3S, partner informed me that I should pass 2S because I have only 11 HCP. Results improve bidding judgement. Thanks for all the comments.

The vote here is 26-0 to invite! GIB says 3♠ is cold and it does appear to me that South should make it. Perhaps your PD should have thought about how to make this contract vs a 4-1 split rather than bemoaning his bad luck and what he believed to be your sub-minimal invite.

Your OP stated that you were opposite a good PD. I'd hope that my good PD's could make 3♠ here. I'd strongly suggest to your PD that he do 1) come here and read this thread. 2) Work out how he should've made the contract.

I wonder what your PD would've said if he had the right decent 14 HCP and the cards had been right and he'd gone +200 after you passed in 2♠?

Note also when it comes to HCP, 11 opposite 13 or 12 opposite 12 makes game more often than 16 opposite 8 in general. This is because there's more transportation between the hands leading to more chances and options in the play.

[Phil]

This looks like a hand from Klingers book. Keri would let you stop in 2S. So would xyz if South starts with 1C.

I'm not going to get too excited about getting to a contract the field rates to match. If we go down on normal breaks and we get a 30-40% board it's not the end of the world.

Apparently your partner was too twitterpated from your bidding to properly play 3S.

[jeananne25]

I play weak NT and would invite. You have already shown a lighter reply with 2C rather than game-forcing 2D. Pard can decide knowing you are probable 11 pts.

[ggwhiz]

I would be so ashamed to go down in 3♠. I sure hope you're not married.

[Vampyr]

 jeananne25, on 2016-April-16, 10:53, said:

I play weak NT and would invite. You have already shown a lighter reply with 2C rather than game-forcing 2D. Pard can decide knowing you are probable 11 pts.

The OP would probably have mentioned two-way Stayman if they were playing it.

[jmcilkley]

Maybe this question is basically wrong. Would I even have bid Stayman? The hand has a losing trick count of 8 and a 1nt opening hand has 7 or 8 losers. On this basis there is no chance of game in a major. However, 11 points is usually enough to invite game in NT. At pairs I would be tempted to pass 2s but at teams I probably would not even bid Stayman but immediately invite game in NT.

[Tramticket]

Mike, surely this hand is worth much more in a suit contract than no trumps?? (Aces and kings rather than queens and jacks; the doubleton ...).

I'm either passing on the first round or using Stayman (and then bidding on, once a fit is found) - at pairs.

I'm always bidding Stayman at IMPs - and closer to bidding 4S direct over 2S than passing.

[eagles123]

 jmcilkley, on 2016-April-16, 15:03, said:

Maybe this question is basically wrong. Would I even have bid Stayman? The hand has a losing trick count of 8 and a 1nt opening hand has 7 or 8 losers. On this basis there is no chance of game in a major. However, 11 points is usually enough to invite game in NT. At pairs I would be tempted to pass 2s but at teams I probably would not even bid Stayman but immediately invite game in NT.

what on earth are you talking about?

[jogs]

 neilkaz, on 2016-April-16, 08:48, said:

The vote here is 26-0 to invite! GIB says 3♠ is cold and it does appear to me that South should make it. Perhaps your PD should have thought about how to make this contract vs a 4-1 split rather than bemoaning his bad luck and what he believed to be your sub-minimal invite.

I forgot to vote. Make that 30-1. 3-2 split is 68%. Poor declarer play is unknown.

What's 2♠= worth? What's 3♠-1 worth?

Also the probability of opener having 12 HCP > 13 HCP > 14 HCP. Opener has 14 HCP clearly less than 30% of the time. And with that 14 HCP it is an iffy game.

[jogs]

Should add with opener's range being 12-14, opener's chance of having 14 is a little over 25% of the time. Since we have 11 HCP, his chances drop considerably.