[dickiegera]

[/hv]

Does 3NT show 18-19pts???

---

If not what is the proper bidding to show 18-19pts?

[manudude03]

I think it was an off-beat 1NT opener last time I saw it, something like 2362 or 3361 shape. To show 18-19 you start with 2NT and then bid 4NT if partner ever bids 3NT.

[kenberg]

manudude03, on 2016-April-10, 07:22, said:

I think it was an off-beat 1NT opener last time I saw it, something like 2362 or 3361 shape. To show 18-19 you start with 2NT and then bid 4NT if partner ever bids 3NT.

I agree. But!

If you are playing pick up and you rebid 2NT with your 18 count and partner passes, don't send me the bill. Even in SAYC the 2C bid promises another bid after even a minimum rebid from opener, so it should be ok. Should be.

[aguahombre]

The thread is on a 2/1 G.F. sequence. If 1d-2c is game forcing, there are a lot of things we can do --- and;; worrying about partner passing our 2nt rebid shouldn't be one of them.

However, I believe the standard is for the jump to 3nt to show specifically 3-3-5-2 with 18-19 HCP. If Opener has 3 clubs, 6 diamonds, or a 4-card major, he will want to use available space to find strain, and won't be bouncing around in notrump.

[kenberg]

aguahombre, on 2016-April-10, 09:04, said:

The thread is on a 2/1 G.F. sequence. If 1d-2c is game forcing, there are a lot of things we can do --- and;; worrying about partner passing our 2nt rebid shouldn't be one of them.

However, I believe the standard is for the jump to 3nt to show specifically 3-3-5-2 with 18-19 HCP. If Opener has 3 clubs, 6 diamonds, or a 4-card major, he will want to use available space to find strain, and won't be bouncing around in notrump.

That makes logical sense. If I had a four card major certainly I would want to show it since 2C does not deny having 4M. If I had four clubs I would want to raise clubs. So using 3NT for specifically 3=3=5=2 and 2NT followed be 4NT if 2NT is raised to 3NT as 18-19 but not 3=3=5=2 makes sense.

And yes, now I see the 2/1 referenced

[jjsb]

dickiegera, on 2016-April-10, 07:07, said:

[/hv]

Does 3NT show 18-19pts???

---

If not what is the proper bidding to show 18-19pts?

2nt is either 12-14 or 18-19 balanced ,that means 3nt is in the 15-17 zone and so unbalanced ,most frequently a 4441

regards
sylvain

[GrahamJson]

Bridge Magazine standard, which has just changed from Acol to 2/1 and is supposed to represent current expert practice, uses a jump to 3NT to show 15-17 in a hand that opener did not want to open 1NT. If it was a major suit opening then it would be a 5332 hand, as others have mentioned. With a 18-19 hand you rebid 2NT, which initially shows 12-14, and then press on over partner's minimum rebid.

[aguahombre]

GrahamJson, on 2016-April-11, 09:44, said:

Bridge Magazine standard, which has just changed from Acol to 2/1 and is supposed to represent current expert practice, uses a jump to 3NT to show 15-17 in a hand that opener did not want to open 1NT. If it was a major suit opening then it would be a 5332 hand, as others have mentioned. With a 18-19 hand you rebid 2NT, which initially shows 12-14, and then press on over partner's minimum rebid.

That seems to be in a weak 1nt framework. Things change when 15-17 balanced is not possible.

[gordontd]

aguahombre, on 2016-April-11, 10:08, said:

That seems to be in a weak 1nt framework. Things change when 15-17 balanced is not possible.

I don't think so - from the post you replied to it seemed to be in a strong NT framework. Not everyone has an absolute prohibition on opening 5cM or off-shape 5cM hands within range of a 1NT opener.

[GrahamJson]

Indeed, BM standard uses a 15-17 NT, hence a 3NT rebid shows a hand that could have opened 1NT but opener chose not to, usually because it inches a 5card major. If the opening was 1D I guess a 3NT rebid is likel to include a six card diamond suit.

[Caitlynne]

dickiegera, on 2016-April-10, 07:07, said:

[/hv]

Does 3NT show 18-19pts???

---

If not what is the proper bidding to show 18-19pts?

Yes, it does show 18-19 HCP in standard methods - either SAYC or 2/1.

[Phil]

Manududes post is closest to accurate and is consistent with every 2/1 book I've read.

I prefer a style that says 3N is 12-14 and strongly prefers 3N. 2N can be hands in the same range but may have a flaw and doesn't mind exploring other strains.

[SteveMoe]

manudude03, on 2016-April-10, 07:22, said:

I think it was an off-beat 1NT opener last time I saw it, something like 2362 or 3361 shape. To show 18-19 you start with 2NT and then bid 4NT if partner ever bids 3NT.

THIS!😀

[aguahombre]

Phil, on 2016-April-11, 13:43, said:

2N can be hands in the same range but may have a flaw and doesn't mind exploring other strains.

Interesting. We have a hand with a flaw for notrump and want to consider other strains, so we waste the entire two-level instead of exploring other strains.

[maca83]

An alternative is for 3NT to show a solid 6/7 card diamond suit with outside stops.

[maca83]

An alternative is for 3NT to show a solid 6/7 card diamnd suit with outside stops

[msjennifer]

I can't imagine a hand that will justify a 3 NT rebid after a 2/1 response.Perhaps he doesn't want partner to be declarer in 3NT. A hand which has 18/19 HCP will bid 2NT then 4NT over 3NT rebid by partner.In olden times,a 2/1 response was forcing only upto 2 NT or 3 of a suit.Perhaps, in those days it did show 18/19 HCP.Today with a partner playing the old system I will make a reverse bid in the stronger major if I have a club support and a goodish diamond suit.If I do have club support then I count the losers as per LTC and not only the HCP alone,so that we may reach a slam with a suitable hand.

[Phil]

aguahombre, on 2016-April-11, 19:16, said:

Interesting. We have a hand with a flaw for notrump and want to consider other strains, so we waste the entire two-level instead of exploring other strains.

Fair comment. Perhaps 2N can show real diamonds and 2♦ is just a weak NT.

[iandayre]

I agree that 2NT followed by 4NT over 3NT to show 18-19 is the correct and best answer. Don't try it playing with GIB though, it can and will pass unless it has a full opener or better.

This applies after 1D-2C. GIB won't pass 2NT if you opened a major.