[Fluffy]

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[ggwhiz]

I have a lot of sympathy. Bidding could go for a number and even a small one would be a likely loss from Wests point of view. They are very unlikely to make this and he is facing a passed hand partner.

4♠ does not appeal and double rates to get 5 of a minor although my partner will pass unless they have a live expectation of going plus on offence.

East can reopen with a double and hope it doesn't get rewound but it's out there. I blame east for not having 2 more hearts and 2 fewer spades.

[cherdano]

I have sympathy with both. I have sympathy for East complaining that his partner didn't make a takeout double with three aces and playability in every suit. I also have sympathy for West complaining that his partner didn't make a passed hand takeout double with the perfect shape to do so.

[gwnn]

West passing is completely insane to me. I don't know about the passed hand takeout X but I know I should do them more often.

[manudude03]

West has an easy double for me. East shouldn't be bidding 5m without some expectation of making it- especially at this vulnerability, so it is fairly safe.

[gszes]

east 100% the logic is somewhat circular but undeniable.
N and E are both passed hands so their "average" amount of hcp is generally around 6. S has bid 4h so their hcp power is generally around 8 but opposite a passed hand the range is much wider but still wont often be more than 10. So W 14 + S "10" = 24 leaving around 8 each for N and E. A lot depends on E heart holding for game to have a serious shot and even better
E (in po seat) will be able to do a similar calculation and realize we actually rate to be very close to 14 as a minimum and w/o too much in hearts given the 4h bid. I would x 4h as E in the po seat and be completely unsurprised when 4s makes easily. The doubleton heart just makes a x by W over 4h too risky especially opposite a passed hand.

[PhilKing]

Just because East is a passed hand does not change the fact that reopening with a double is totally insane at these colours. The 4♥ opening could be very heavy and we have no defensive tricks if partner does not feel like going for 1100.

West should double - cooperative for me, but guaranteeing a suitable dummy should partner want to bid 4♠.

[PhantomSac]

PhilKing, on 2015-December-19, 18:32, said:

Just because East is a passed hand does not change the fact that reopening with a double is totally insane at these colours. The 4♥ opening could be very heavy and we have no defensive tricks if partner does not feel like going for 1100.

Absolutely this

[all loomis]

Fluffy, on 2015-December-18, 16:21, said:

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easy re-opening x. at pairs. young people should re open at any score, it toughens the moral fibre. not bidding with the w hand, beyond a slow pass- i'm already toughened.

[sfi]

Speaking as someone who likes opening 4H in 3rd seat, please double in pass-out seat with the East hand.

As Phil said, West has a risky but reasonable double. East has no excuse for one.

[Fluffy]

I guess it was just bad luck as most people seem to think double is normal.

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I bid 4NT and partner said he was going ot lead ♠A and expected me to pass with this. I said that if I would pass hishand without a seocnd thought and if I had a hand were 4♠ had good play I would probably reopen 4♥ with a double.

I had to eat my own words because on the next day I had to face same bidding twice and I passed both with AK9x xx Qx 10xxxx and some 3244 10 count

Regarding my decission I run a poll on BW: http://bridgewinners...27-3/?cj=291440

[PhilKing]

Fluffy, on 2015-December-20, 02:56, said:

I guess it was just bad luck as most people seem to think double is normal.

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I bid 4NT and partner said he was going ot lead ♠A and expected me to pass with this. I said that if I would pass hishand without a seocnd thought and if I had a hand were 4♠ had good play I would probably reopen 4♥ with a double.

I had to eat my own words because on the next day I had to face same bidding twice and I passed both with AK9x xx Qx 10xxxx and some 3244 10 count

Regarding my decission I run a poll on BW: http://bridgewinners...27-3/?cj=291440

I don't understand the poll - you don't say how you play a double of 4♥. A lot of very top pairs do not play it as pure take out, (particularly in Europe).

But even if it's pure take-out I would probably still pass it with two jacks and potentially good defence.

[manudude03]

As I said above, East shouldn't be bidding 5m (which 4NT effectively is) without some expectation of making it. So I'd be passing with the actual East hand.