[trumpmaven]

Another wonderful book is Watsons' Play of the hand

[Caitlynne]

 deftist, on 2015-December-15, 04:31, said:

Hello all,

I just started playing bridge about a week ago. I am a professional poker player and some of the elements transfer from poker to bridge, but for now I'd say I can barely spell bridge.

I find this game fascinating though, and would like to improve as fast as I can through practice. What should I do? So far, here's what I have been doing:

- Read "bridge for dummies" and "25 conventions you should know"
- Downloaded "Learn to play bridge" series from BBO website and gone through the drills
- Played a bunch of instant tournaments on BBO + games with 3 robots for plugging obvious leaks in my bidding and learning from other players

I was wondering if this is a correct way of learning bridge. Maybe I should start posting some hands that I was unsure of? Also, does it help to have a long-term partner in this game so that we can learn, improve and play together? (I am assuming it is.)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!

[Caitlynne]

If you can afford individual instruction, that is best. But - and this is really important - you need to find an genuine expert (this does NOT mean a pro) who is a really good teacher. This is hard to find, but if you message me, I can recommend a fantastic teacher.

[kuhchung]

gwnn (regular poster for a long time) and I (lurker/trashposter) make bridge videos, for what it's worth. Peter Hollands does too. I don't know if it'd be useful, but it's over the shoulder stuff.

Here's gwnn: https://www.youtube.com/user/tgwnn
Peter Hollands: https://www.youtube....H1OlbhVm25z4rLQ

Mine is in the signature.

[alanrick]

I bought a book a year for several years and found them entertaining but difficult to really ingest so that I'd be confident about bidding and playing without upsetting my partner. The tipping point for me was the public club "Bilies Retreat" on BBO. You can sit in on lessons and there are regular practice sessions with mentors so that you can discuss the bidding/play as you go.

But above all you can meet like-minded/experienced regularly and form partnerships to experiment and gain experience. I'm no expert (yet) but that turned out to be exactly what I needed at least get to this level of confidence. Eventually I joined the club (as in paid subscription) to take advantage of special courses and I don't regret that either.

[zillahandp]

Read all the card play and quizzes from Goren, "better bridge for better players" and Gardner / Mollo how to be lucky/ the play of the hand.lea n all the safety plays and odds, count to 40 and 13 on every hand and suit. All the time.
Play with and against players who are better than you are, not BBOadvanced or below. Take the stick, three nights a week, and Friday to Sunday five sessions with someone as keen, pay for a teacher, not night school or BC a pro. Watch the best when you are not playing live eat sleep it, be content all four social contacts become me bridge players.
Martin Hoffman went from club rubber player, high stakes to Life master in less than two years! Easy isnt it just like inning a gold medal!! Join the best bridge club you can find, good luck.

[daspdl]

I do not play poker but I read a poker book by Gus Hanson called Every Hand Explained that detailed his winning of a major tournament. This book showed the way an expert plays poker hands. For Bridge my one must read book is Mike Lawrence "How to Play Card Combinations." It will at least give you an idea of what Bridge could really is at a top level.

As far as bridge base be sure to replay all your hands. You can also see how other people played the same hand. So if you did not do as well check how the same hand was played by others.

[pdmunro]

I am no expert so take my suggestions, as just that, suggestions. I am a scientist/math teacher. I explore things a bit like a scientific experiment.

Let me tell my story. I went to bridge lessons for a couple of years. Okay, that taught me the bidding. But my eyes opened after a few years when my partner said, "Didn't you know I had the ♠K?" I thought, "Well no I didn't, because I wasn't even trying to work out what you had partner." But that simple question set me on the journey to try to work out how to work out what partner held. Prior to that quest, I was simply doing standard plays: these seem to work fine 80% of the time, but improvement comes from working out what partner and the opponents hold. Just like in poker.

On this forum, as in club play, there are players who like to try different bidding systems. They feel that this gives them an edge. And there are players who like to concentrate on the play of the hand. I wonder where your preference will lie. As I said, I am no expert, just a club player who has an occasional win, but I do know a thing or two about how to learn difficult subjects.

The key to learning is to play around with a key concept in your head. Play with it in both a backwards and forward direction. I am sure you have done this as part of developing your own strategies at poker. For myself, I latched onto the idea of the losing trick count and developed my own ideas of a winning trick count, the mirror image of the losing trick count. So I look at my hand and quickly count the number of aces, kings and queens I have. These are my winners, plus the 4th 5th etc. card in my suit. This is in addition to assessing my hand in terms of point count. So I am applying two filters to my hand: winners (the mirror image of losers) and point count, including length/shortage points.

I need these two complementary filters. Rather than just counting my points, I found that counting my aces, kings and queens naturally led me to think about who held the missing honors. See, now I am starting to think about who might hold that missing ♠K! Maybe partner has it?

And a common occurrence is that if the opponents haven't bid, it is highly likely that the missing honors are divided equally between them, so I can plan the play accordingly. Note that, after the dummy comes down that this is the time to plan your declarer play. The key technique is bridge is to plan your declarer play before calling for a card from dummy to the first trick.

An important reason to go to a bridge teacher is to learn the etiquette of the game. When you may enquire about the meaning of an opponent's bid. When to call the director for a ruling, etc.

The other idea that players use is to think in terms of hand patterns. For instance, common hand patterns are 5431, 5332 and 7321, etc. Okay, 7321 is not the most common distribution of cards, but when a player makes a 3♥ opening bid, a premept, they most probably have that shape. Thinking in terms of hand patterns helps you to plan the play.

The key count, of course, is the trump suit. Seeing 5 trumps in your hand and three in dummy and thinking 5332 leads to the thought that three rounds of trumps should draw all the opponents' trumps. Is this any more efficient than simply counting "that's 4 trumps on the first round, another four on the second round, they must have one left"? Who knows.

In summary, my journey was
1. a teacher to learn bidding;
2. reading to learn card play;
3. self-exploration to develop a quick method to count the cards.

Have I perfected any of those? Far from it, but it is an enjoyable journey. And if you can, go to a bridge club. It's fun.

[SelfGovern]

I'll add another vote for Watson's classic, "Play of the Hand". You'll learn a lot and avoid a lot of common mistakes.

Let me also add that bridge is different than poker, in that in poker, it's OK to try to mislead your opponents by the way you play or act.
In bridge, the goal is to convey no information by the way you play, your expressions, or your tempo: the only legal communication is through the bids you choose or the cards you play (again: not the way you bid or play).

Finding a partner you can discuss things with is important. You seem pretty driven, so you may outgrow this partner soon -- but it's important to have someone you can discuss agreements with and know it won't be wasted when you never see him/her again. Always be looking for the 'next' regular partner, someone you can continue to grow with.

In many auctions, there is no universal "right" or "wrong" bid -- it depends on your agreed bidding system. If P opens 1S, your system may make it right to bid 1N, 2C, 2N, or some number of spades -- it depends on the agreement you have. Understand that less-experienced players may try to give you advice that is wrong for you and your system, because they are constrained by only thinking about their system, or are limited by what they know.

I agree with another's advice that learning defense and play of the hand are much more important than learning 'gadgets' and conventions. I will add that hand evaluation is important. But you can learn to play bridge and become quite good by using just Stayman and Jacoby Transfers. Blackwood (or its variants) are optional. Jacoby 2NT (forcing major suit raise) can be important to help you set a game force early and make slam bidding more sane. And if you want to play a 2/1 game forcing system, you'll have to use 1NT Forcing... just realize that it does distort some auctions; the benefit of 2/1 is that it gives you a great deal of clarity in game-forcing and above auctions, allowing you the most possible room to find your fit, know how high you can safely bid, and to explore for slam if that's in the cards.

Any convention has a trade-off: there's a natural bid you can no longer use. Understand that trade-off.

Look for "rules" that can help you interpret new or unfamiliar auctions. Such as, "If I open 3C, and partner (an unpassed hand) bids 3H, is it forcing or not forcing?" The rule I use is, "It's more important to find the right game or slam, than to be able to stop on a dime in the right partscore (games and slams score better!). Thus, the bid of a new suit after a preempt should be forcing, allowing you to find the right game or slam (for +400 or +600 or 900+)... instead of hoping that your 3H contract will make exactly for +140 instead of 3C making for +110, or down one or two for -100.

Beware of advice in general from people who can't explain "why", and who don't understand the system you're playing. They may say they are 'expert' or 'world class', but that doesn't mean they've ever won a club game, let alone a National event. One of my "favorite" "world class" players consistently scores -1.75 IMP/board.

[danmathies]

some teachewrs like billy miller has an extensive poker background and many more too numerous to mention

[Giddymon]

 deftist, on 2015-December-15, 04:31, said:

Hello all,

I just started playing bridge about a week ago. I am a professional poker player and some of the elements transfer from poker to bridge, but for now I'd say I can barely spell bridge.

I find this game fascinating though, and would like to improve as fast as I can through practice. What should I do? So far, here's what I have been doing:

- Read "bridge for dummies" and "25 conventions you should know"
- Downloaded "Learn to play bridge" series from BBO website and gone through the drills
- Played a bunch of instant tournaments on BBO + games with 3 robots for plugging obvious leaks in my bidding and learning from other players

I was wondering if this is a correct way of learning bridge. Maybe I should start posting some hands that I was unsure of? Also, does it help to have a long-term partner in this game so that we can learn, improve and play together? (I am assuming it is.)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot in advance!

[Giddymon]

I recently decided to get serious about learning bridge also.. the first question to answer is what form or where you want to play. I decided I wanted to go the duplicate competition route since that is the most stable version. People play so many different versions of bridge. Here in the US, the American Contract Bridge League runs the duplicate bridge competitions where you can progress up the ranks like the International Chess Federation.

Great series to get you started are written by Audrey Grant. Look at the ACBL website. There are local duplicate games all over that are completions where you can win duplicate points. According to where you live, there may be local competitions.

You will probably do well with bridge.

When I play on BBO, I look at people's profiles and pick partners that use similar bidding processes to mine. Bridge depends on you being in sync with your partner so you understand each other's bidding language.

After this info, what other questions do you have?

[deftist]

Thanks a lot, guys. Many helpful posts, and I really appreciate you for having taken the time to share your advice and insight.

I will order a few books that were recommended by some posters, and then go look for a partner with whom I can improve as a bridge player.

[tm255]

I am in the same boat, having started bridge study about 6 months ago. I used to play competitive chess, and am an OK amateur poker player (meaning I understand probability and do not play "no foldem holdem.")

IMO you need to ask yourself what kind of learner you are, and go from there. Maybe looking at what worked, and what did not work, with learning poker would be a start.

My chess play really took off when I found an instructor who focused on concepts, not minutiae. I am best starting with a big picture, and fine tuning as I progress. Others apparently assimilate many fine details to form the big picture. To each his own.

I read somewhere that getting solid at bidding and basic card play while ignoring some of the rare fine points will make you better than the majority and this fits with my overall philosophy.

If you consider yourself like me, then I would avoid the Root books as they are 300+ pages of detail after detail. Watson is not so bad, but does get into the weeds a bit. For card play, I so far like Marstens Principles of Card Play and the Barbara Seagram books Planning the Play of a Bridge Hand and Defensive Play at Bridge. For bidding I like the Audrey Grant 2 over 1 book written with Rodwell, as well as the Bridge for Dummies book.

Try to find a bridge club and start playing in the beginner sessions.

I like the Bridge Baron and Jack Bridge software programs for non human practice. IMO the BBO robots are not good because the odd plays they make are not conducive to learning the right way to play a hand.

Good luck. It is a fascinating game.

[deftist]

 tm255, on 2015-December-19, 19:37, said:

I am in the same boat, having started bridge study about 6 months ago. I used to play competitive chess, and am an OK amateur poker player (meaning I understand probability and do not play "no foldem holdem.")

IMO you need to ask yourself what kind of learner you are, and go from there. Maybe looking at what worked, and what did not work, with learning poker would be a start.

My chess play really took off when I found an instructor who focused on concepts, not minutiae. I am best starting with a big picture, and fine tuning as I progress. Others apparently assimilate many fine details to form the big picture. To each his own.

I read somewhere that getting solid at bidding and basic card play while ignoring some of the rare fine points will make you better than the majority and this fits with my overall philosophy.

If you consider yourself like me, then I would avoid the Root books as they are 300+ pages of detail after detail. Watson is not so bad, but does get into the weeds a bit. For card play, I so far like Marstens Principles of Card Play and the Barbara Seagram books Planning the Play of a Bridge Hand and Defensive Play at Bridge. For bidding I like the Audrey Grant 2 over 1 book written with Rodwell, as well as the Bridge for Dummies book.

Try to find a bridge club and start playing in the beginner sessions.

I like the Bridge Baron and Jack Bridge software programs for non human practice. IMO the BBO robots are not good because the odd plays they make are not conducive to learning the right way to play a hand.

Good luck. It is a fascinating game.

Thanks man, I'm glad to hear that you also have a chess and poker background.

I agree with you that I should go with whatever learning style that fits me well. I also agree with you that I should try to grasp the big picture first, and then worry about minute details later on. I'm sure I will go through trial and errors, but I will enjoy the learning process.

Interesting that you mentioned Jack Bridge, because I actually downloaded the demo version just yesterday. I like its UI and analysis feature, and was going to ask other posters here for their opinions. Do you use it for postmortem of the hands you have played? Also, would you prefer it to Bridge Baron?

[tm255]

 deftist, on 2015-December-20, 04:54, said:

Thanks man, I'm glad to hear that you also have a chess and poker background.

I agree with you that I should go with whatever learning style that fits me well. I also agree with you that I should try to grasp the big picture first, and then worry about minute details later on. I'm sure I will go through trial and errors, but I will enjoy the learning process.

Interesting that you mentioned Jack Bridge, because I actually downloaded the demo version just yesterday. I like its UI and analysis feature, and was going to ask other posters here for their opinions. Do you use it for postmortem of the hands you have played? Also, would you prefer it to Bridge Baron?

I looked around the www a lot for info on software. Most of what I found was analysis of which program was "best" as far as strength of play at the expert level. What I was most interested in was which program would be "best" from a beginner learning level, and I never found any really useful info.

I downloaded the demos of BB and JB and they seemed to be comparable. My bridge mentor really likes BB so I bought it, plus it runs on a mac and JB requires Windoze emulation software. Also, my mentor told me exactly how to set up the convention in BB so that saved me a lot of trial and error. There were a few things that I actually preferred on JB as compared to BB, and vice versa, but I don't remember exactly what they were at this point.

I don't use BB for postmortem analysis on the BB hands. I will sometimes play the same hand over a few times with different bidding to see what happens. I try to play through hands slowly, thinking about each bid and each play carefully as practice does not make perfect, it makes permanent so I believe in trying to practice perfectly.

Another book you may enjoy looking at is by Simon, "Why You Lose at Bridge." I have only read a sample but he focuses on making the best plays from a risk/reward standpoint, and uses poker as an analogy. Should be right up your alley!

[eagles123]

Mike Lawrence - How to Read Your Opponents Card

In my opinion the best book for an aspiring player, possibly a little ambitious at your stage but it's a truly great book.

[billw55]

 eagles123, on 2015-December-20, 12:22, said:

Mike Lawrence - How to Read Your Opponents Card

In my opinion the best book for an aspiring player, possibly a little ambitious at your stage but it's a truly great book.

One of the best books ever, period. Mandatory for any player, when they are ready for it.

[gwnn]

Continuing to plug at the "go electronic, forget about boring books" front, there's also some nice CD's you can order from BBO. Unfortunately the UI feels a bit dated (think Windows 95), but they work just fine also on Windows 10 and they're very well written and the interactive nature adds to the fun factor. I've gone through Mike Lawrence's Counting at Bridge 2 (there is also part 1 which should be just as good...) and Defense and they're both pretty useful, you should be able to learn a lot from them. It's definitely more engaging than covering the bottom half of the page with a piece of paper and thinking it through.

[y66]

 deftist, on 2015-December-15, 09:31, said:

Interesting remark about bridge teachers. I have been coaching lots of poker students, and am aware of pros and cons of coaching in general. Personally, I don't think I would need a teacher when I start off just because I think I can learn the fundamentals by myself. Well, at least that's what I did in poker, but maybe I'm wrong when it comes to bridge. Either way, I'll give it some thoughts for sure.

Word for word, the smartest thing I've ever heard someone say besides "take all your tricks" is "What should I do now? That is seldom the right question. The right question is: What the hell is going on? Unless you know what's going on, it's very hard to figure out what to do" (from Bob Hamman in At the Table. Fun read). I think all good bridge pros know this and if you find one, it will help you improve faster and avoid ingraining bad habits. Ruthless honesty, killer instinct and sense of humor are other qualities to look for. As a coach and a successful poker play, you probably know this.