Help
3♥ might be too much and 4♥ could be better if the red king belonged to the heart suit. Who should have stopped?
Page 1 of 1
ATB Who should have done less?
#1
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,082
- Joined: 2006-August-31
- Gender:Male
- Location:Santiago, Chile
- Interests:Bridge, Video Games, Languages, Travelling.
Posted 2015-September-15, 16:03
3♥ might be too much and 4♥ could be better if the red king belonged to the heart suit. Who should have stopped?
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win
My YouTube Channel
#2
- - - A AKQJT9876543
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,614
- Joined: 2007-October-02
- Gender:Male
Posted 2015-September-15, 16:37
I suspect both North and South did too much to play 4H in a 5 card fit 
Assuming it is the E/W bidding, 3H is too much for me, so West gets the blame. Having said that, you might still make it on a good day.
Assuming it is the E/W bidding, 3H is too much for me, so West gets the blame. Having said that, you might still make it on a good day.
Wayne Somerville
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,366
- Joined: 2012-March-18
- Gender:Male
- Location:Illinois
- Interests:Bridge, Golf, Soccer
Posted 2015-September-15, 18:27
I can't fault the auction through 2 ♥ exactly what should be bid.
West has a 6 HCP point hand not counting any distribution.
The problem then is how to evaluate the singleton in ♠s, East's longest suit. If you give it full weight, you might just barely have enough for game opposite a max opener hand. The singleton might make it possible for partner to ruff out losers in ♠s. But it also means that partner is likely to have some wasted values in ♠s. The other issue is whether West can get enough pitches on East's ♠s to cover losers in East's side suits. 1-4-4-4 makes that more doubtful. So giving the stiff full distributional value seems quite a bit too optimistic.
Just as second check, do a LTC analysis. West has a 9 loser hand. A max opener after 1 ♠ - 1 NT - 2 ♥ is probably a 6 loser hand at best. That makes 15 losers total between the two hands versus a max 24 possible losers in any two hands. The difference 9 is the number of likely trick winners. So LTC you would make only 9 tricks (3 ♠) not good enough for game.
West should pass.
West has a 6 HCP point hand not counting any distribution.
The problem then is how to evaluate the singleton in ♠s, East's longest suit. If you give it full weight, you might just barely have enough for game opposite a max opener hand. The singleton might make it possible for partner to ruff out losers in ♠s. But it also means that partner is likely to have some wasted values in ♠s. The other issue is whether West can get enough pitches on East's ♠s to cover losers in East's side suits. 1-4-4-4 makes that more doubtful. So giving the stiff full distributional value seems quite a bit too optimistic.
Just as second check, do a LTC analysis. West has a 9 loser hand. A max opener after 1 ♠ - 1 NT - 2 ♥ is probably a 6 loser hand at best. That makes 15 losers total between the two hands versus a max 24 possible losers in any two hands. The difference 9 is the number of likely trick winners. So LTC you would make only 9 tricks (3 ♠) not good enough for game.
West should pass.
#4
- Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,586
- Joined: 2005-September-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
- Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor
Posted 2015-September-15, 19:03
4H has play.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."
-P.J. Painter.
-P.J. Painter.
#5
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 878
- Joined: 2009-June-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Australia
Posted 2015-September-15, 21:14
I would pass 2H as West.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 16,831
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2015-September-15, 22:55
Hanoi5, on 2015-September-15, 16:03, said:
3♥ might be too much and 4♥ could be better if the red king belonged to the heart suit. Who should have stopped?
No blame...
good aggressive bidding vul
I would hope my partners bid this way
I suppose nitpickers will note east did not rebid 3h so west overbid
good problem.
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,703
- Joined: 2006-May-18
- Gender:Not Telling
Posted 2015-September-16, 02:37
Are you all still passing 2♥ if the East hand looks like ♠AK654 ♥KQT73 ♦2 ♣K8? Or is the plan to rebid 3♥ on this? To my mind, East could be considerably more suitable than this.
What I would like to know is what the agreement was for the 1NT response. Without a system being given I would assume this is SA but clearly it is relevant if it could contain hands just below an opening. Given this assumption I am much more inclined to point the finger at East than West. And has been pointed out, 4♥ is not down yet. Finally, 1♠ - 1NT is an excellent auction for transfers on Opener's rebid. One advantage of doing this is that it takes pressure off on hands of this type. So we can also consider assigning some part of the blame to system even though that might seem strange when looking at standard methods.
What I would like to know is what the agreement was for the 1NT response. Without a system being given I would assume this is SA but clearly it is relevant if it could contain hands just below an opening. Given this assumption I am much more inclined to point the finger at East than West. And has been pointed out, 4♥ is not down yet. Finally, 1♠ - 1NT is an excellent auction for transfers on Opener's rebid. One advantage of doing this is that it takes pressure off on hands of this type. So we can also consider assigning some part of the blame to system even though that might seem strange when looking at standard methods.
(-: Zel :-)
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,661
- Joined: 2011-February-12
Posted 2015-September-16, 09:16
MP
It is a clear loser in the long run to search for these "miracle" games when even the 3 level is iffy. You have a singleton in p long suit (a bad thing btw). PASS
IMPS
They pay a rather large bonus to bid vul games at IMPS and it seems justified to make a game try here that one would prefer to avoid at MP. Even that is conditional on how the partnership prefers to invite. If the partnership uses the "invite freely accept dearly method" (my favorite at IMPS) then this hand qualifies and east should realize they are not really all that close to a max for their previous bidding and pass. If the partnership uses the "invite dearly accept freely" method than east definitely has a 4h bid but w does not qualify for a 3h bid (though any partnership that that has a meta agreement to always stretch "for game" at IMPS should do so here and realize the extra risk they are taking).
It is a clear loser in the long run to search for these "miracle" games when even the 3 level is iffy. You have a singleton in p long suit (a bad thing btw). PASS
IMPS
They pay a rather large bonus to bid vul games at IMPS and it seems justified to make a game try here that one would prefer to avoid at MP. Even that is conditional on how the partnership prefers to invite. If the partnership uses the "invite freely accept dearly method" (my favorite at IMPS) then this hand qualifies and east should realize they are not really all that close to a max for their previous bidding and pass. If the partnership uses the "invite dearly accept freely" method than east definitely has a 4h bid but w does not qualify for a 3h bid (though any partnership that that has a meta agreement to always stretch "for game" at IMPS should do so here and realize the extra risk they are taking).
Page 1 of 1