[bbentzen]

Don't compare what Mike Passell did to any of the cheaters. His so-Called offence was totally innocent, and has nothing do with cheating. The ACBL reaction was way out-of-line.

[Hanoi5]

Could it be that the 4th pair didn't qualify for Chennai!? Or maybe they didn't qualify in Croatia... OMG!

[Antrax]

 WesleyC, on 2015-September-19, 12:09, said:

Of the 3 top pairs that have been found 'guilty' of cheating (with potentially another couple to come), ALL of them have generated 'whispers' in top bridge circles.
My take away is that, at least at a World Class level, players are actually very good at recognizing when something suspicious is going on.

I don't think you can draw that conclusion, since the reason they were caught and outed were the verysame whispers. So, there's still the possibility of better cheaters that you haven't caught.

[Fluffy]

Let's see what France can do, some of their players might be enlisted for transnationals.

[WesleyC]

 Antrax, on 2015-September-19, 22:18, said:

I don't think you can draw that conclusion, since the reason they were caught and outed were the very same whispers. So, there's still the possibility of better cheaters that you haven't caught.

I think I've phrased my idea poorly. I don't think that catching 100% of cheaters is realistic, especially if they use subtle methods and gain only a small advantage. However, the 3 cases revealed so far suggest when many top experts suspect a pair of dubious conduct over many events then that can and should be used to target cheating investigations.

[lamford]

 Antrax, on 2015-September-19, 22:18, said:

I don't think you can draw that conclusion, since the reason they were caught and outed were the very same whispers. So, there's still the possibility of better cheaters that you haven't caught.

Indeed, there were "whispers" about East German athletes in the 1980s, but few were caught. And the authorities did not act even after obviously suspicious results like Schult's and Reinsch's world records in the discus, in 1986 and 1988, which have stood since then. Proof of cheating is hard to obtain and the best cheats are probably still out there.

[MrAce]

Laughable mentioned 2 years punishment just added another VERY important reason to go electronic imo.
"Catch a cheat" will not work as good as they think it will. It never did. But even if it works, what good will it do if the punishments are beyond funny?

[1eyedjack]

I think that it is absolutely right that cheaters should have an incentive to confess. Then it is just a question of horse-trading how much of an incentive is (1) fair and (2) effective.

[Fluffy]

But they didn't confess voluntarilly. Or so I think.

Just 2 things:

Allavena said that Boye said that before making public about Fantoni-Nunes he conteacted them and said that if they confessed things wouldn't become public.

Sabine Auken (and probably Roy Welland) were finally convinced that Smirnov-Piekarek were clean and they made a public announcement to ask the whispering to stop.

If you add the 2 facts together I think it is obvious what actually has happened.

[mgoetze]

 Fluffy, on 2015-September-20, 07:05, said:

But they didn't confess voluntarilly. Or so I think.

David Gold on Bridgewinners:

Quote

They were getting nailed. The hard way or the easy way. You will see the evidence soon enough, this has all only just come out. (Btw a friend of mine went through the match v england in opatijia and spotted it easily, and this is a non-expert bridge player).

[1eyedjack]

Not obvious to me, but never mind.

No confession is "voluntary", in that unless under the influence of physical torture there is always a choice to confess or not to confess, and with each choice comes consequences. I think that it is in the interests of the game that convictions be supported by confessions, and if the perp. has no incentive to confess then confessions will not result. That is no different from the world of criminal prosecutions outside of the bridge world. It does have its detractors: In the USA I understand that a lot of confessions are volunteered by defendants who are innocent, for fear of the consequences of conviction despite their innocence and of the consequent disparity in the sentence.

[Vampyr]

 mgoetze, on 2015-September-20, 07:19, said:

David Gold on Bridgewinners:

Does anyone have a link to the video of the match David mentions?

[antonylee]

 Fluffy, on 2015-September-20, 01:42, said:

Let's see what France can do, some of their players might be enlisted for transnationals.

Mentioned today on the French Federation forum: The team will be T. Bessis/Volcker, Combescure/Rombaut, de Teissières/Lhuissier, who just finished 2nd, 3rd and 4th of the open selection. (The first pair, Lorenzini/Quantin, is unavailable.)

[PhantomSac]

Yeah sorry if I was unclear I meant I think France is next up to qualify for the Euros... didn't mean anything else.

[nige1]

IMO the WBF and NBOs rather than players should investigate cheating allegations. Nevertheless, it's worrying that

• WBF and NBO officials had been investigating for years but failed to detect several long-suspect pairs allegedly using simple cheating methods, uncovered by a few players in a few weeks.
• In spite of access to computer and video records, over many years, the authorities haven't yet completed their investigation of world-beating suspect cheats, allegedly using simple consistent methods. What are the prospects that the authorities will deal with some of the (presumably much more numerous) cheating pairs, who occasionally use more sophisticated methods.

[captyogi]

 PhantomSac, on 2015-September-20, 16:24, said:

Yeah sorry if I was unclear I meant I think France is next up to qualify for the Euros... didn't mean anything else.

Thank You PhantomSac for Clarification. Merci Beaucoup.

[mike777]

I miss this part concerning fantunes.....I understand there is gossip....



I miss zero evidence....?

Assuming for DISCUSSION there is evidence...were you persuaded

If so
If not ok....


You must understand at this point thousands and thousands of us know of zero evidence or slander regarding FT
--------------


pls note posting some kind of internet gossip means=something close to zero.....
----------------


discussing evidence means more

[BillHiggin]

 mike777, on 2015-September-20, 22:19, said:

I miss this part concerning fantunes.....I understand there is gossip....



I miss zero evidence....?

Assuming for DISCUSSION there is evidence...were you persuaded

If so
If not ok....


You must understand at this point thousands and thousands of us know of zero evidence or slander regarding FT
--------------

pls note posting some kind of internet gossip means=something close to zero.....
----------------


discussing evidence means more

Plenty of evidence that can be verified. See http://bridgewinners...-fantoni-nunes/
You will find a table summarizing the observations of lots of videos that demonstrate their use of the angle of a played card (opening lead) which corresponds exactly with the holding in the suit led. Each example links to the video (with the time stamp of the lead) and a summary of all the pertinent details. Perhaps the evidence might not convince their mothers(as mothers never believe their children could misbehave), but it is very obvious once you know the code that they are cheating.

[Antrax]

The IBF committee decided to suspend F&S due to the weight of the evidence until the investigation is over. F&S have requested a chance to speak and appeal this decision and got until the 24th.
https://www.facebook...&type=1

[billw55]

 gordontd, on 2015-September-19, 10:45, said:

Here's a link http://neapolitanclu...rmuda-bowl.html

Ahhh, we begin to see a change. They see the writing on the wall for F-S and F-N. So they try another approach, hoping to salvage something, anything. Go public before the posse does. Show contrition instead of defiance. Self-suspend rather than wait for judgment.

Yes, I think Brogeland's sweep is working. The cheaters still out there feel fear now. Heh.