BBO Discussion Forums: Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 1108 Pages +
  • « First
  • 473
  • 474
  • 475
  • 476
  • 477
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#9481 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,497
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2018-February-24, 18:06

View Postnige1, on 2018-February-24, 17:58, said:

My impression seems to be true.


Once again Nigel, lets revisit your original claim (not whatever little fantasy is currently playing through your head)

Quote

In this Forum, Russians appear to be fair game


You have not been able to produce any evidence supporting this.
Rather, you are repeatedly trying to evade the original question.

FWIW, I would broadly agree with a statement that the American people are quite biased against the Russian people. However, you made a very different.
You implied that this was broadly prevalent on the Forums and to me, at least, this sounds like unadulterated bullshit.
Alderaan delenda est
0

#9482 User is offline   nige1 

  • 5-level belongs to me
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,128
  • Joined: 2004-August-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Glasgow Scotland
  • Interests:Poems Computers

Posted 2018-February-24, 19:01

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-February-22, 12:32, said:

FWIW, I would prefer a system that removed the franchise from folks once they - say - hit 70 and extended it to 16 year olds to the one that we have today. For me, the major arguments in favor of restricting the franchise are
1. Planning horizon
2. Obsolete mental models
3. Declining mental function

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-February-24, 18:06, said:

Once again Nigel, lets revisit your original claim (not whatever little fantasy is currently playing through your head)
You have not been able to produce any evidence supporting this. Rather, you are repeatedly trying to evade the original question.
FWIW, I would broadly agree with a statement that the American people are quite biased against the Russian people. However, you made a very different.
You implied that this was broadly prevalent on the Forums and to me, at least, this sounds like unadulterated bullshit.

View Postnige1, on 2018-February-23, 16:05, said:

In this Forum, Russians appear to be fair game; otherwise ageism seems more common than racism. IMO, where law permits, calm factual debate on such topics can be beneficial.
Hrothgar, That is what I wrote. I didn't say what you imagine that I implied. You seem to be nit-picking. I've explained how you can confirm my impression. It's you who don't answer my actual claims. You are welcome to try to refute them. Until you can post politely, however, I don't intend to prolong this argument. jjbrr should be pleased :)
0

#9483 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,228
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2018-February-25, 07:18

A friend sent me the link below, and his niece had sent it to him. He suggests that it be given an award for best opening paragraph. Politics aside, as someone who sometimes yearns for the old days when you wrote a document by hand and then gave it to a typist, I found it both scary and hilarious.

https://slate.com/te...-documents.html

PS My friend is a good deal older than I am and sometimes calls on me (any port in a storm) for help with technical issues.
Ken
1

#9484 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,497
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2018-February-25, 07:32

View Postnige1, on 2018-February-24, 19:01, said:

I've explained how you can confirm my impression. It's you who don't answer my actual claims. You are welcome to try to refute them.


Burden of proof rest on the individual advancing the stupid claim *****-for-brains.
Alderaan delenda est
0

#9485 User is offline   ggwhiz 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,952
  • Joined: 2008-June-23
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-February-25, 09:23

View Postkenberg, on 2018-February-25, 07:18, said:

A friend sent me the link below, and his niece had sent it to him. He suggests that it be given an award for best opening paragraph. I found it both scary and hilarious.

https://slate.com/te...-documents.html


It's the second kind.
When a deaf person goes to court is it still called a hearing?
What is baby oil made of?
0

#9486 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-25, 10:17

Quote

By Ellen Nakashima, Karen Deyoung and Liz Sly, The Washington Post

A Russian oligarch believed to control the Russian mercenaries who attacked U.S. troops and their allies in Syria this month was in close touch with Kremlin and Syrian officials in the days and weeks before and after the assault, according to U.S. intelligence reports.

In intercepted communications in late January, the oligarch, Yevgeniy Prigozhin, told a senior Syrian official that he had “secured permission” from an unspecified Russian minister to move forward with a “fast and strong” initiative that would take place in early February.


And what was the public response from the U.S. president about this attack on American forces? Nothing. He was too busy tweeting, "There was no collusion," about the Russian investigation.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#9487 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-25, 12:03

Wait a second....now it all makes sense.....of course.....Nunes just explained it....all along Carter Page was a spy placed by the Democrats inside Trump's campaign... :P ;)

It must be true. It came from this unimpeachable source.

Quote

On Sunday Rep. Devin Nunes told Maria Bariromo that Carter Page was indeed an informant for the FBI in 2013.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#9488 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,228
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2018-February-25, 13:32

View PostWinstonm, on 2018-February-25, 12:03, said:

Wait a second....now it all makes sense.....of course.....Nunes just explained it....all along Carter Page was a spy placed by the Democrats inside Trump's campaign... :P ;)


Back when I was still teaching a student missed an exam, not for the first time, and had an elaborate explanation for how this happened. I told him that I would give him a make-up exam on the condition that I did not have to believe what he just said. He agreed to this condition.

There are times when a story hurts my ears just to listen to it.
Ken
2

#9489 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2018-February-25, 16:44

Pankaj Mishra replies to Ta-Nehisi Coates question "Why do white people like what I write?" at London Review of Books:

Quote

As early as 1935, W.E.B. Du Bois identified fear and loathing of minorities as a ‘public and psychological wage’ for many whites in American society. More brazenly than his predecessors, Trump linked the misfortunes of the ‘white working class’ to Chinese cheats, Mexican rapists and treacherous blacks. But racism, Du Bois knew, was not just an ugly or deep-rooted prejudice periodically mobilised by opportunistic politicians and defused by social liberalism: it was a widely legitimated way of ordering social and economic life, with skin colour only one way of creating degrading hierarchies. Convinced that the presumption of inequality and discrimination underpinned the making of the modern world, Du Bois placed his American experience of racial subjection in a broad international context. Remarkably, all the major black writers and activists of the Atlantic West, from C.L.R. James to Stuart Hall, followed him in this move from the local to the global. Transcending the parochial idioms of their national cultures, they analysed the way in which the processes of capital accumulation and racial domination had become inseparable early in the history of the modern world; the way race emerged as an ideologically flexible category for defining the dangerously lawless civilisational other – black Africans yesterday, Muslims and Hispanics today. The realisation that economic conditions and religion were as much markers of difference as skin colour made Nina Simone, Mohammed Ali and Malcolm X, among others, connect their own aspirations to decolonisation movements in India, Liberia, Ghana, Vietnam, South Africa and Palestine. Martin Luther King absorbed from Gandhi not only the tactic of non-violent protest but also a comprehensive critique of modern imperialism. ‘The Black revolution,’ he argued, much to the dismay of his white liberal supporters, ‘is much more than a struggle for the rights of Negroes.’

Compared to these internationalist thinkers, partisans of the second black president, who happen to be the most influential writers and journalists in the US, have provincialised their aspiration for a just society. They have neatly separated it from opposition to an imperial dispensation that incarcerates and deports millions of people each year – disproportionately people of colour – and routinely exercises its right to assault and despoil other countries and murder and torture their citizens. Perceptive about the structural violence of the new Jim Crow, Coates has little to say about its manifestation in the new world order. For all his searing corroboration of racial stigma in America, he has yet to make a connection as vital and powerful as the one that MLK detected in his disillusioned last days between the American devastation of Vietnam and ‘the evils that are rooted deeply in the whole structure of our society’. He has so far considered only one of what King identified as ‘the giant American triplets of racism, extreme materialism and militarism’ – the ‘inter-related flaws’ that turned American society into a ‘burning house’ for the blacks trying to integrate into it. And in Coates’s worldview even race, despite his formidable authority of personal witness, rarely transcends a rancorously polarised American politics of racial division, in which the world’s most powerful man appears to have been hounded for eight years by unreconstructed American racists. ‘My President Was Black’, a 17,000-word profile in the Atlantic, is remarkable for its missing interrogations of the black president for his killings by drones, despoilation of Libya, Yemen and Somalia, mass deportations, and cravenness before the titans of finance who ruined millions of black as well as white lives. Coates has been accused of mystifying race and of ‘essentialising’ whiteness. Nowhere, however, does his view of racial identity seem as static as in his critical tenderness for a black member of the 1 per cent.

As long as Coates is indifferent to the links between race and international political economy, he is more likely to induce relief than guilt among his white liberal fans. They may accept, even embrace, an explanation that blames inveterate bigots in the American heartland for Trump. They would certainly baulk at the suggestion that the legatee of the civil rights movement upheld a 19th-century racist-imperialist order by arrogating to the US presidency the right to kill anyone without due process; they would recoil from the idea that a black man in his eight years in power deepened the juridical legacy of white supremacy before passing it on to a reckless successor. The intractable continuities of institutional brute power should be plain to see. ‘The crimes of the American state,’ Coates writes in one of the introductions to We Were Eight Years in Power, ‘now had the imprimatur of a black man.’ Yet the essays themselves ultimately reveal their author to be safely within the limits of what even a radicalised black man can write in the Atlantic without dissolving the rainbow coalition of liberal imperialism or alienating its patrons. Coates’s pain and passion have committed him to a long intellectual journey. To move, however, from rage over the rampant destruction of black bodies in America to defensiveness about a purveyor of ‘kill lists’ in the White House is to cover a very short distance. There is surely more to come. Coates is bracingly aware of his unfinished tasks as a writer. ‘Remember that you and I,’ he writes to his son in Between the World and Me, ‘are the children of trans-Atlantic rape. Remember the broader consciousness that comes with that. Remember that this consciousness can never ultimately be racial; it must be cosmic.’ Nowhere in his published writings has Coates elaborated on what this cosmic consciousness ought to consist of. But his own reference to the slave trade places the black experience at the centre of the modern world: the beginning of a process of capitalism’s emergence and globalisation whereby a small minority in Europe and America acquired the awesome power to classify and control almost the entire human population.

The black slave, captured early in this history, presaged the historical ordeal of the millions yet to come: dispossession and brutalisation, the destruction of cultures and memories, and of many human possibilities. Today, the practices of kidnapping, predation, extraction, national aggression, mob violence, mass imprisonment, disenfranchisement and zoning pioneered in the Atlantic have travelled everywhere, along with new modes of hierarchy and exclusion. They can be seen in India and Myanmar, where public sanction drives the violent persecution, including lynching, of various internal enemies of the nation. They can be seen in Africa and Latin America. They have returned home to Europe and America as renewed animus against migrants and refugees. All this reproduces to a sinister extent the devastating black experience of fear and danger – of being, as Coates wrote, ‘naked before the elements of the world’. Coates’s project of unflinching self-education and polemic has never seemed more urgent, and it has only just begun.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#9490 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-25, 18:44

Lock her up! Or don't. B-)

Quote

You might say, “Gee, couldn’t it be true that Clinton engaged in some dodgy behavior AND people around Trump also engaged in dodgy behavior?”

No. The answer is no. It was decided years ago that there can only be one dodgy person, and it’s Clinton. I don’t make the rules. (Fox News does.)

Knowing that, here’s what we know based on what we have been programmed to think we know:

When she wasn’t busy killing people or loading our precious uranium supplies into Russian nuclear warheads in exchange for money she used to fund a pizza parlor that served as a front for a child sex ring, Clinton convinced Trump’s adult children to advise Trump to hire Manafort to run his presidential campaign.

She even bribed Trump advocate Newt Gingrich to glowingly tweet: “Nobody should underestimate how much Paul Manafort did to really help get this campaign to where it is right now.”

For years before that, Clinton forced Manafort and his business associate Gates to make bazillions of dollars doing political work for Putin-hugging politicos in Ukraine. She then forced them to launder much of that money, setting them up for future charges.


That's Chicago! (Tribune) ;)
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#9491 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-26, 09:37

I am shocked, shocked, that the Republican tax cuts are not going to the middle class!

NYT

Quote

Now corporate announcements and analyst reports confirm what honest observers always said — this claim is pure fantasy. As executives tell investors what they intend to do with their tax savings and their spending plans are tabulated into neat charts and graphs, the reports jibe with what most experts said would happen: Companies are rewarding their stockholders.

Businesses are buying back shares, which creates demand for the stocks, boosts share prices and benefits investors. Some of the cash is going to increase dividends. And a chunk will go to acquiring other businesses, creating larger corporations that face less competition.

In addition to benefiting investors, these maneuvers will end up boosting the pay of top executives because their compensation packages are often tied to the price of their companies’ stock. Finally, a small sliver of the money will find its way into paychecks of rank-and-file employees, but it won’t be a big boost and will probably come in the form of a temporary bonus, rather than a lasting raise.

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#9492 User is offline   jjbrr 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,525
  • Joined: 2009-March-30
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-February-26, 12:25

Quote

"So what happens is, this guy falls off right on his face, hits his head, and I thought he died. And you know what I did? I said, ‘Oh my God, that’s disgusting,’ and I turned away. I couldn’t, you know, he was right in front of me and I turned away. I didn’t want to touch him… he’s bleeding all over the place, I felt terrible. You know, beautiful marble floor, didn’t look like it. It changed color. Became very red. And you have this poor guy, 80 years old, laying on the floor unconscious, and all the rich people are turning away. Oh my God! This is terrible! This is disgusting! and you know, they’re turning away. Nobody wants to help the guy. His wife is screaming—she’s sitting right next to him, and she’s screaming.”


Quote

"You don't know until you test it, but I really believe I'd run in there even if I didn't have a weapon,” Trump told a gathering of governors at the White House. "And I think most of the people in this room would have done that, too."

OK
bed
1

#9493 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-26, 14:23

View Postjjbrr, on 2018-February-26, 12:25, said:




https://www.youtube....h?v=t-wUe5aEwHM
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#9494 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2018-February-27, 08:41

Guest post from Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg:

Quote

I've been saying that the next party majority in the House is a toss-up, but it's time to revise that a bit. Democrats are more likely to have a majority in the next House than Republicans are. Not by a lot; it would be no surprise if the Republicans hold on. But the trends so far are clear, unmistakable and run in the same direction: toward a solid Democratic victory in November, and perhaps a Democratic landslide.

Over at Brookings, political scientist Michael Malbin has a thorough look at Democrats' resources. According to his data, it looks very much like a mirror image of the 2010 cycle. Democrats have a huge crop of candidates, with large numbers of them having already raised $100,000, a very good marker at this stage. Democrats have managed to field candidates who are likely to run full-out campaigns in virtually every district where a Democrat would have a chance in a neutral year as well as where they would normally be at a small disadvantage. They even have serious candidates in a lot of districts that would normally be unlikely to be competitive, and more than a few in what should be solidly Republican districts.

In other words: Democrats are going to pick up quite a few seats even if voters are no longer in a mood in November to punish President Donald Trump. Look at the Cook Political Report ratings: If both parties win all the seats leaning their way or better, and then the parties split the toss-up seats, Democrats would gain 15 of the 24 seats they need to get to 218. If Democrats sweep the toss-ups? That's enough to put them in the majority with 220.

I'd be very surprised if late retirements and late recruiting don't favor the Democrats between now and November, given everything we've seen so far. I'd be surprised, too, if Democrats don't continue to post excellent fundraising totals and have access to an army of volunteers.

The next big tests for Democrats are the earliest primaries, coming up March 6 in Texas and March 20 in Illinois. Primaries pose real challenges for the parties, especially during unusual surges in candidate filings. All the Democrats have to do is nominate duds in a dozen or so (or even more) of the wrong districts, and the horde of candidates will turn into a big problem instead of an opportunity. There's no bigger story in electoral politics right now than these primaries, for House races and offices up and down the ballot.

Feel the Bern.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#9495 User is offline   hrothgar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,497
  • Joined: 2003-February-13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Natick, MA
  • Interests:Travel
    Cooking
    Brewing
    Hiking

Posted 2018-February-27, 09:44

View Posthrothgar, on 2017-November-06, 07:18, said:

I don't think that Robert's appreciates how wide Mueller's investigation is going.

My understanding is that Mueller is targeting a number of congressmen (starting with Dana Rohrbacker)
Paul Ryan and Harry Reid are also under active investigation.

It is possible that this will cause congress to cut off Mueller's funding or some such.

It is my hope that it might actually stir them to real action.


Back in November I posted the following

Today, we see http://washingtonpre...sia-indictment/
Alderaan delenda est
1

#9496 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,228
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2018-February-27, 10:59

View Posthrothgar, on 2018-February-27, 09:44, said:

Back in November I posted the following

Today, we see http://washingtonpre...sia-indictment/


I had not yet seen this. Thanks.

There are honest businessmen out there, trying to make money playing it straight. And there are others. With the others, it seems to work as long as nobody takes too close a look at what they are doing, but once the scrutiny starts, watch out.

It is all about money. No interest in doing good, no real interest in any social view or ideology, just money. As this becomes clear, I think the revulsion felt by the guy in the street will spread across party lines. Those seen as crapping on the country so they can get a private jet or expensive models for fun will not have support. Maybe the lawyers can save their butts, maybe not.
Ken
0

#9497 User is offline   barmar 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Admin
  • Posts: 21,613
  • Joined: 2004-August-21
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2018-February-27, 11:19

View Posty66, on 2018-February-27, 08:41, said:

Guest post from Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg:

Things went so massively against expectations in 2016, I'm no longer interested in reading predictions about the midterms.

I hope most Democrats feel similarly. If they hear that they're likely to win, many may get complacent and not bother going to the polls, which could then backfire and allow the underdog Republicans to win.

#9498 User is offline   kenberg 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,228
  • Joined: 2004-September-22
  • Location:Northern Maryland

Posted 2018-February-27, 12:21

View Postbarmar, on 2018-February-27, 11:19, said:

Things went so massively against expectations in 2016, I'm no longer interested in reading predictions about the midterms.

I hope most Democrats feel similarly. If they hear that they're likely to win, many may get complacent and not bother going to the polls, which could then backfire and allow the underdog Republicans to win.


I agree, and one additional point. The Dems really need to think through what their message is and to whom. If they decide that the Rs are so bad that they don't need to bother with this, it would be a serious error.
Ken
0

#9499 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-27, 12:49

View Postkenberg, on 2018-February-27, 12:21, said:

I agree, and one additional point. The Dems really need to think through what their message is and to whom. If they decide that the Rs are so bad that they don't need to bother with this, it would be a serious error.


This is a good point. The Dems in the special elections have done well but do not seem to have as good of national identity. I think it would be a mistake to offer themselves up as the party who is simply against the Republican agenda - and I think the young Kennedy seems to understand this and may become the face of the party.

Edit: This is from a NYT OpEd.

Quote

Americans under age 30, for example, lean notably left. They are socially liberal, worried about climate change and in favor of higher taxes on the rich. But most of them don’t vote, especially outside of presidential elections. In the 2014 midterms — when Republicans took control of the Senate and held the House — only one of every six citizens between 18 and 29 voted. One in six! The same year, more than half of people aged 60 or older voted.


The writer goes on to suggest that mid-term young voter turnout is the key to flipping Congress to blue. I suspect he is right as past statistics bear our his claim.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

#9500 User is offline   Winstonm 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 17,287
  • Joined: 2005-January-08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
  • Interests:Art, music

Posted 2018-February-27, 13:16

Quote

Clearly, what we’ve done hasn’t been enough,” Rogers bluntly declared during a Senate armed services committee hearing.

In particular, Rogers said the administration’s decision to not immediately implement congressionally mandated sanctions against Russia sends a signal to Russian President Vladimir Putin that the Kremlin can continue to wage cyber warfare against the U.S. and other countries.

“Not just the sanctions but more broadly, my concern is, I believe that President Putin has clearly come to the conclusion there’s little price to pay here, and that therefore I can continue this activity,” Rogers told Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA).


One has to wonder what the Art-of-the-Dealmaker-in-Chief thinks he got in return for refusing to implement sanctions....help in 2018 and 2020, perhaps....a little stake in Rosneft...a tower in Moscow...?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
0

  • 1108 Pages +
  • « First
  • 473
  • 474
  • 475
  • 476
  • 477
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

248 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 248 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Google