[Winstonm]

 kenberg, on 2017-June-07, 06:43, said:

Funny you should ask. Abut half an hour ago I read today's Washington Post and mentioned an editorial to Becky. My comment was "What I get out of this is that I do not at all understand the whole thing". To start with, I pronounced Qatar with the accent on the second syllable, sort of like guitar (this analog comes from source ), but Becky pointed out that it was pronounced more like "cutter" on PBS. Also, I am a little vague on just where it is.

Here is a part of the editorial
.

Fine, call me uninformed, call me an ignoramus, but I did not know this. I have some vague recollection of American forces leaving Saudi Arabia but I would not want my life to depend on me getting this right.

I wanted to put the above out there because we often hear of voters just being uninformed. Well, yes. We have to be honest with ourselves about that. I attended a grandson's high school graduation on Monday, and we all went out to a restaurant afterward. The conversation hopped around, we got onto the subject of movies, and I mentioned that we recently saw The Year of Living Dangerously. My son-in-law, Alan, mentioned that he found the politics confusing when he first saw it. Well, so did I. It is set in Indonesia of 1965. I was working on a thesis in 1965, mathematics not politics. Yes, I knew who Sukarno was. President of Indonesia. I mentioned that maybe it had once been a British colony and Alan said, no, it was the Netherlands. Sure, Dutch East Indies, I knew that, but I had forgotten.

The point: Don't expect expertise from me. I think I am above average as voters go. This is a problem.

How, you might ask, did we end up talking about movies? Well, it was high school graduation, we were thinking back in time, and my daughter Ruth mentioned that when she was 17 she and I went to see Alien. She really wanted to see it, I said I didn't like horror films, she said she really wanted to see it, we saw it. I still don't like horror films but I did like Alien.

A good part of my political views boils down to this: I want a president who knows more about Qatar than I do. I am not so sure that we have one.

I would go one better - I don't care if the president knows more about Qatar than I as long as he is willing to acknowledge his ignorance and seek advice and counsel from people who do know about Qatar and then follows that advice.

What is truly dangerous is someone who believes he knows instinctively all that he needs to know, for example that Fender makes a great electric Qatar - they say so on InfoWars.

[RedSpawn]

 diana_eva, on 2017-June-07, 04:16, said:

Does anyone understand what's happening in the Gulf? Why Qatar? Why isn't anyone interfering - should they?

Sorry, I was focused on the grease fire in the U.S. federal debt kitchen.

http://www.msnbc.com...-strange-tweets

We have a Middle East crisis based on the planting of fake news in Qatar and bizarre tweets from Trump. These two events have made Middle East countries gang up on Qatar and demand that it stop supporting extremists groups in the region.

Quote

The crisis, the worst to hit the Gulf states in 30 years, has its origins in rivalry between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Support for Saudi Arabia from Trump is believed to have empowered Riyadh to act against its neighbor, which it believes has been too supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood and not sufficiently opposed to Iran.

The final straw appears to have been reports in the Qatari media last month that its ruler had made a speech that appeared friendly to Iran. The Qataris deny the emir made the remarks and blamed hackers.

CNN on Tuesday reported that US intelligence officials believe Russian hackers planted the false news story. FBI experts visited Qatar in May to analyse an alleged cyber breach, the US broadcaster said. Qatar’s government said the news report on 05/23/17 attributed false remarks to the emirate’s ruler that appeared friendly to Iran and Israel, and questioned whether Trump would last in office.

The Qatari foreign minister said the FBI had confirmed the hack and the planting of fake news. “Whatever has been thrown as an accusation is all based on misinformation and we think that the entire crisis is being based on misinformation. It was started based on fabricated news, being wedged and being inserted in our national news agency, which was hacked and proved by the FBI. (bold mine)

Moscow on Wednesday denied the allegations. “We’re getting tired of reacting to unsubstantiated banalities,” Andrei Krutskikh, a Kremlin adviser on cybersecurity, told the Interfax news agency. “Whatever happens it is hackers. It’s a stale claim and as ever, there is zero evidence, and conclusions are drawn before the incident is even investigated,” he said.

I have to admit, I am getting a bit tired of the (insert enemy of choice) hack allegations.

Let's take a historical look at how ALL of our enemies are so savvy at hacking (and how we are so vulnerable).

• The Office of Personnel Management breach--21.5 million government personnel records stolen, including Social Security #'s -- FBI believes it was China. https://www.opm.gov/...rity-incidents/ https://www.washingt...m=.59fe18b83a5a
  
• The Democratic National Committee breach --20,000 emails were stolen from the DNC and ultimately leaked-- FBI believed it was Russia. https://www.nytimes....ttack.html?_r=0
  
• Wanna Cry Ransomware breach -- Began on Friday, 05/12/2017. Hit more than 300,000 computers in Mainland China and 150 other countries -- believed it was North Korea. https://en.wikipedia...nsomware_attack
  
• The Hack of Sony Pictures -- On November 24, 2014, a hacker group which identified itself by the name "Guardians of Peace" (GOP) leaked a release of confidential data from the film studio Sony Pictures. The data included personal information about Sony Pictures employees and their families, e-mails between employees, information about executive salaries at the company, copies of then-unreleased Sony films, and other information. Believe it was North Korea. https://en.wikipedia...nst_North_Korea
  
• Planting of fake news in Qatari News Agency -- FBI believes it was Russian hackers. https://www.theguard...o-crisis-report .
  
• Anthem hacking (February 2015)-Number of people affected: 88 million. Information stolen: Social Security numbers, employment details, and other personal information maintained by the nation’s second largest health insurer — but no medical data.--Believed to be Chinese government-sponsored hackers

Very interesting. . .

[RedSpawn]

There are so many questions about the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hack.

Why did the DNC not allow the FBI to review the compromised server after the breach?

Why did the FBI rely on the results of an investigation conducted by a 3rd party contractor for such a significant national security matter (with espionage overtones)?

Why did the DNC and FBI both agree to accept the results of the 3rd party service provider without question?

See http://www.slate.com...rowdstrike.html

Interesting questions with no convenient answers. . . as usual.

[Winstonm]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-June-07, 11:00, said:

There are so many questions about the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hack.

Why did the DNC not allow the FBI to review the compromised server after the breach?

Why did the FBI rely on the results of an investigation conducted by a 3rd party contractor for such a significant national security matter (with espionage overtones)?

Why did the DNC and FBI both agree to accept the results of the 3rd party service provider without question?

See http://www.slate.com...rowdstrike.html

Interesting questions with no convenient answers. . . as usual.

I find all of this odd - if the FBI were investigating a crime involving the server, why would they need to ask permission to look into it? If the crimes did not involve the server, what is the reason to ask to look into it?

[y66]

 kenberg, on 2017-June-07, 06:43, said:

Funny you should ask. Abut half an hour ago I read today's Washington Post and mentioned an editorial to Becky. My comment was "What I get out of this is that I do not at all understand the whole thing". To start with, I pronounced Qatar with the accent on the second syllable, sort of like guitar (this analog comes from source ), but Becky pointed out that it was pronounced more like "cutter" on PBS. Also, I am a little vague on just where it is.

Here is a part of the editorial
.

Fine, call me uninformed, call me an ignoramus, but I did not know this. I have some vague recollection of American forces leaving Saudi Arabia but I would not want my life to depend on me getting this right.

I wanted to put the above out there because we often hear of voters just being uninformed. Well, yes. We have to be honest with ourselves about that. I attended a grandson's high school graduation on Monday, and we all went out to a restaurant afterward. The conversation hopped around, we got onto the subject of movies, and I mentioned that we recently saw The Year of Living Dangerously. My son-in-law, Alan, mentioned that he found the politics confusing when he first saw it. Well, so did I. It is set in Indonesia of 1965. I was working on a thesis in 1965, mathematics not politics. Yes, I knew who Sukarno was. President of Indonesia. I mentioned that maybe it had once been a British colony and Alan said, no, it was the Netherlands. Sure, Dutch East Indies, I knew that, but I had forgotten.

The point: Don't expect expertise from me. I think I am above average as voters go. This is a problem.

How, you might ask, did we end up talking about movies? Well, it was high school graduation, we were thinking back in time, and my daughter Ruth mentioned that when she was 17 she and I went to see Alien. She really wanted to see it, I said I didn't like horror films, she said she really wanted to see it, we saw it. I still don't like horror films but I did like Alien.

A good part of my political views boils down to this: I want a president who knows more about Qatar than I do. I am not so sure that we have one.

Wasn't Sigourney Weaver in both those films? Love the scene in YOLD where they broke curfew and drove back to his place after the party. As Ripley, I think we can guess what she would do to Trump.

[diana_eva]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-June-07, 10:50, said:

Sorry, I was focused on the grease fire in the U.S. federal debt kitchen.

http://www.msnbc.com...-strange-tweets

We have a Middle East crisis based on the planting of fake news in Qatar and bizarre tweets from Trump. These two events have made Middle East countries gang up on Qatar and demand that it stop supporting extremists groups in the region.



I have to admit, I am getting a bit tired of the (insert enemy of choice) hack allegations.

Let's take a historical look at how ALL of our enemies are so savvy at hacking (and how we are so vulnerable).

• The Office of Personnel Management breach--21.5 million government personnel records stolen, including Social Security #'s -- FBI believes it was China. https://www.opm.gov/...rity-incidents/ https://www.washingt...m=.59fe18b83a5a
• The Democratic National Committee breach --20,000 emails were stolen from the DNC and ultimately leaked-- FBI believed it was Russia. https://www.nytimes....ttack.html?_r=0
• Wanna Cry Ransomware breach -- Began on Friday, 05/12/2017. Hit more than 300,000 computers in Mainland China and 150 other countries -- believed it was North Korea. https://en.wikipedia...nsomware_attack
• The Hack of Sony Pictures -- On November 24, 2014, a hacker group which identified itself by the name "Guardians of Peace" (GOP) leaked a release of confidential data from the film studio Sony Pictures. The data included personal information about Sony Pictures employees and their families, e-mails between employees, information about executive salaries at the company, copies of then-unreleased Sony films, and other information. Believe it was North Korea. https://en.wikipedia...nst_North_Korea
• Planting of fake news in Qatari News Agency -- FBI believes it was Russian hackers. https://www.theguard...-crisis-report.
• Anthem hacking (February 2015)-Number of people affected: 88 million. Information stolen: Social Security numbers, employment details, and other personal information maintained by the nation’s second largest health insurer — but no medical data.--Believed to be Chinese government-sponsored hackers

Very interesting. . .

Hacking is a lot simpler to do, in practice, than organizing global conspiracies and arranging with reptilian forces to take over the earth fwiw. But of course, hacking feels like fake news, much better to believe that a few select wide-open-minded people are capable of recognizing the "true" truth despite the crooked mainstream media, scientific communities, doctors, national security intelligence. Takes a special kind of vision to see through all that net of lies and conspiracies.

[Winstonm]

From Comey's prepared statement:

Quote

He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.” …

Trump has blown his lines. It's not "lift the cloud", it's "there's a cancer on the presidency", and it's not the president who says it but the White House counsel.

[diana_eva]

Sounds like sheer ignorance to me. Trump thought everyone is his employee, asked his employees for loyalty. Nothing surprising, he's been acting like corleone since forever. I am not familiar with the US justice system, but if it can be proved he has no intention to pressure or block people "knowingly" he's pure as snow. He can hardly be accused of doing anything "knowingly" lol

[diana_eva]

 Winstonm, on 2017-June-04, 14:08, said:

It's disturbingly funny to me to watch these programs try to offer balance by inviting guests from both points of view instead of determining and presenting facts.

Offering that kind of balance can also be dangerous:
https://www.theguard...e-terror-attack

I'm seeing this in Romania too, not that it's related in any way. Media building and promoting "celebrities" that are in no way qualified to talk about whatever it is that they are talking, but who put up a good show, ratings boom, everyone is happy. And then we wonder why are all those people suddenly believers in some crazy conspiracy theory, or against vaccines, or flat earth or whatever the "hot topic of the day" happens to be. Where do all these followers come from eh. A funny and not so harmful one was some earthquake prophet who could predict earthquakes better than the seismology center. He did predict a big one which never happened. Next day I went to the market and heard a group of old women behind me talking "did you feel the earthquake last night?" "Oh, yes, it was powerful!"

[RedSpawn]

 Vampyr, on 2017-June-06, 19:15, said:

Clinton lied about his sex life, and was rightly impeached for incitement to perjury or whatever the changes were. I did not follow the hearings well enough to know why he was acquitted, except of course the defining of the words.

Maybe he should not have been acquitted; I don't know. But to compare his lies to Trunp's is disingenuous. Clinton lied about his peccadilloes, and it is not at all clear to me that this was even any of our business. His sexual indiscretions and what he decided to say about them were not relevant to how he performed as President, and I do not think that anyone could suggest that he was other than an excellent President.

I think we are talking past each other instead of to each other. I am not saying that Former President Bill Clinton is a bad President. I asked if he was a piece of slime and/or a liar?

His lying on camera about an alleged peccadillo with a young, impressionable, manipulative White House intern is not a competency issue; however, it is a character and fidelity issue. If he lies about peccadilloes, will he lie about high crimes and abuses of power? Will he lie because it is politically expedient to do so? If he can't remain faithful to his wife, will he remain faithful to his constituents and to this nation? These questions are fair game and are completely within his span of control.

At the press conference, he could have said he would not have dignified that question with a comment, or no further comment or that matter was none of our business, or even yes I did have an inappropriate relationship. However, he decided to double down on his false narrative because it was a pivotal moment and it was politically expedient to do so. He gave an Academy Award winning delivery and hoped that would end the matter, but it cast a dark shadow at the tail end of his Presidency.

He was charged with perjury and obstruction of justice for his impeachment hearing. He was acquitted because an acquittal was a politically expedient alternative to the messy chaotic process of unseating the President at the near end of his term. The impeachment hearing was a reality check by the D.C. establishment to remind Clinton that his duty to Office comes 1st and should never conflict with his dalliances. These affairs can become national security concerns.

Plus, it is alleged Former President Bill Clinton became a target for blackmail because of this tryst and his deep-seated need to conceal it from the world.
http://www.americant...r_lewinsky.html
https://www.centerfo...-action-summit/ Please cue the video for Admiral James "Ace" Lyons to 18:55
http://samvak.tripod.com/pp157.html

[Winstonm]

This is stunning:

Quote

WASHINGTON (AP) — A nonprofit issues group is labeling James Comey a political “showboat” in a television ad set to air Thursday, the day the former FBI director testifies on Capitol Hill.

Comey “put politics over protecting America,” a narrator says in the 30-second spot, titled “Showboat,” which was shared with The Associated Press. It accuses him of being “consumed with election meddling” even as “terror attacks were on the rise.”

Great America Alliance has paid for the ad, which is slated to run digitally Wednesday and appear the next day on CNN and Fox News. The group, formed after President Donald Trump’s election to advocate for his administration, is not required to disclose its donors.

The message of the ad reflects a strategy by Trump and his advocates to erode Comey’s credibility.

Trying to combat Congressional testimony with tv ad propaganda - like that will accomplish anything. I think Trump and cohorts are getting desperate. The easiest way to make it all go away is to cooperate and enlist all aides to cooperate fully, as well. But you can't do that if you have something to hide.

[Zelandakh]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-June-07, 14:52, said:

Plus, it is alleged Former President Bill Clinton became a target for blackmail

Alleged by whom besides Fox Opinion and right-wing fake news sites? It seems par for the course for both sides of a presidential contest to claim the other is a potential blackmail target, just part of the smear campaigning that seems to dominate American politics.

[RedSpawn]

 Winstonm, on 2017-June-07, 17:57, said:

This is stunning:

Trying to combat Congressional testimony with tv ad propaganda - like that will accomplish anything. I think Trump and cohorts are getting desperate. The easiest way to make it all go away is to cooperate and enlist all aides to cooperate fully, as well. But you can't do that if you have something to hide.

The problem is not the ad. The problem is the United Citizens court decision that allowed "legal fictions" (corporations) to contribute unlimited sums of money to political action committees and assert unalienable rights they don't have.

Corporations are neither man nor woman nor human being and do not have the same Constitutional rights we do. Corporations do not have a 1st Amendment right to broadcast political ads of any persuasion and influence the body politic when they can't run for office and don't even possess the right to vote!

A corporation is not a person; it is a human instrumentality. Without humans, a corporation is a piece of paper, neither more nor less. Legally, a corporation's rights are never superior to a man's right unless he relinquishes them.

[Vampyr]

 diana_eva, on 2017-June-07, 14:12, said:

Sounds like sheer ignorance to me. Trump thought everyone is his employee, asked his employees for loyalty. Nothing surprising, he's been acting like corleone since forever. I am not familiar with the US justice system, but if it can be proved he has no intention to pressure or block people "knowingly" he's pure as snow. He can hardly be accused of doing anything "knowingly" lol

Trump should ask someone the meaning of "public servant".

[Winstonm]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-June-07, 20:06, said:

The problem is not the ad. The problem is the United Citizens court decision that allowed "legal fictions" (corporations) to contribute unlimited sums of money to political action committees and assert unalienable rights they don't have.

Corporations are neither man nor woman nor human being and do not have the same Constitutional rights we do. Corporations do not have a 1st Amendment right to broadcast political ads of any persuasion and influence the body politic when they can't run for office and don't even possess the right to vote!

A corporation is not a person; it is a human instrumentality. Without humans, a corporation is a piece of paper, neither more nor less. Legally, a corporation's rights are never superior to a man's right unless he relinquishes them.

I agree with Citizens United being a joke - but also the present law of the land.

[RedSpawn]

 Zelandakh, on 2017-June-07, 18:09, said:

Alleged by whom besides Fox Opinion and right-wing fake news sites? It seems par for the course for both sides of a presidential contest to claim the other is a potential blackmail target, just part of the smear campaigning that seems to dominate American politics.

Did you even click the links and cue the video at 18:55? Should I just dismiss a retired 4 star Navy Admiral and former Commander-In-Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and Deputy Chief of U.S. Naval Operations willing to go ON RECORD? His military background is too strong and impressive to cavalierly dismiss as a "disgruntled leader".

There is no conspiracy, but there is a compromised President who is willing to boldly lie to his wife, his sitting Vice President, and the nation about a silly dalliance with a White House intern. And why is he is willing to risk so much political capital just to keep this tryst out of the public domain? That is a very fair question.

[Winstonm]

Anyone who still clings to faith in supply-side economics such as Paul Ryan and Donald Trump promote as the solution to the nation's ills should read this.

Quote

For Brownback, a former senator and one-time presidential hopeful, the vote was nothing less than a humiliation. He had hailed his tax cuts as “a real live experiment” in conservative governance and offered them up as a model for other states and the Trump administration. Instead, they left him as the most unpopular governor in the country, who was reportedly casting about for a federal posting that would allow him to escape Topeka before the legislature could eviscerate his legacy. “The Brownback experiment didn’t work. We saw that loud and clear,” said Heidi Holliday, executive director of the Kansas Center for Economic Growth.

Kansas has been following the most conservative economic policies in the nation since Governor Brownback was first elected. It has not been a success. Trump and Ryan want to expand this failure to national policy.

[Winstonm]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-June-07, 20:38, said:

Did you even click the links and cue the video or should I just dismiss a retired 4 star navy Admiral with a very strong military background willing to go ON RECORD?

Here is a little from the Wikipedia page for Admiral Lyons:

Quote

On 14 November 2012, Lyons speculated that the death of Ambassador Stevens in Benghazi was the result of a bungled attempt to have Stevens kidnapped by Ansar al-Sharia to facilitate a prisoner exchange resulting in the release of Omar Abdel-Rahman.[4]

On 7 February 2015, Lyons controversially claimed that the Muslim Brotherhood had succeeded in infiltrating every US security agency under the Obama presidency during a National Press Club conference. He also alleged that John Brennan, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, was a Muslim convert. In addition, Lyons alleged that the Muslim Brotherhood was planning to start up a political party to influence American domestic politics.[5]

On 11 February 2015, Lyons fingered US Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger as the single person responsible for twice preventing a joint France-America takedown of the Khomeini regime in Iran in August 1987. He went on to state "Islam is a political movement masquerading as a religion." [6]

[Zelandakh]

 RedSpawn, on 2017-June-07, 20:38, said:

Did you even click the links and cue the video at 18:55? Should I just dismiss a retired 4 star Navy Admiral and former Commander-In-Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, and Deputy Chief of U.S. Naval Operations willing to go ON RECORD? His military background is too strong and impressive to cavalierly dismiss as a "disgruntled leader".

There is no conspiracy, but there is a compromised President who is willing to boldly lie to his wife, his sitting Vice President, and the nation about a silly dalliance with a White House intern. And why is he is willing to risk so much political capital just to keep this tryst out of the public domain? That is a very fair question.

LOL, you are joking, right? he came across as such a balanced observer. Surely only conspiracy theorists and those sitting full-square in their bubbles could take him seriously? 4 billion dollars? And Congress could not find any evidence of such a transfer taking place? Yeah right.

Honestly Redspawn, you make me laugh sometimes. You believe in things like this without a shred of evidence and yet completely reject it when multiple agencies in multiple countries report suspicions about links between some in the Trump campaign and Russia....on the basis that no evidence is available! Please try to take a look at your world view model one day if you expect anyone here to engage you seriously in debate!

[RedSpawn]

 Zelandakh, on 2017-June-07, 23:33, said:

LOL, you are joking, right? he came across as such a balanced observer. Surely only conspiracy theorists and those sitting full-square in their bubbles could take him seriously? 4 billion dollars? And Congress could not find any evidence of such a transfer taking place? Yeah right.

Honestly Redspawn, you make me laugh sometimes. You believe in things like this without a shred of evidence and yet completely reject it when multiple agencies in multiple countries report suspicions about links between some in the Trump campaign and Russia....on the basis that no evidence is available! Please try to take a look at your world view model one day if you expect anyone here to engage you seriously in debate!

Honestly, I am not the one defending a Former President who went on camera and lied to the nation unapologetically about a trifling tryst. He then told us in a grand jury hearing that the term "sexual relations" includes sexual intercourse but does not include the act of f311atio! Oh really?

And to add insult to injury, he gets a yellow backhoe and digs an even deeper hole for himself and suggests that the truth depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is. Seriously?

We got our own Humpty Dumpty creating his own reality and lexicon under oath, mind you, and that doesn't disturb you? I guess we should just dismiss his compelling need to hide this affair and assume that it can't be exploited by others for political gain?

I don't care about his sexual exploits in the White House. However, his alarming display of character afterwards and the unnecessary cover-up makes him a liability and breaches the public's faith in the integrity of the Office he assumes. He is compromised, biases be damned.