[jodepp]

You open whatever you want

I open 1♥ but would not criticize a 1NT opening. Like the old saying goes: "You pays your money and you takes your choice". This is an 'eye of the beholder' hand.

Maybe there should be another choice in the poll - 'Is there a clear-cut superior choice?'

[Wackojack]

imo The upside of opening 1NT with this hand far outweighs the the possible downside.

If partner has 5 spades you will play in a 5-3 fit right sided.
If partner has 3 or 4 spades you are well placed in no trumps when partner has fewer than 4 hearts.
1NT promises 15-17 and the hand is easily worth 15.

Opening 1♥ risks you playing in
1. A wrong sided 4-3 ♠ fit
2. A 5-1 2♥ contract (OK maybe opposite those hearts you will make but unlikely to outscore no trumps)
3. Missing 3N when partner has 10 points.

[Jinksy]

One benefit of 1N I don't think anyone's mentioned is when they have the spades, which is more likely if we have a heart fit. Conceivably 1N and 2H will make our way, with 2S making their way but only biddable over hearts.

Am I right in thinking that the 1♥ openers are mostly doing so because of the texture of the hand, rather than because they think it's too weak? I can't imagine not upgrading this hand if playing strength were the only question.

[manudude03]

I'm opening 1N, since I feel if I open 1H, I am somewhat obligated to raise partner's spades with a 1N rebid being an underbid. This is not a good hand for playing 2S on a 4-3 fit.

[tfoerster]

Assuming a 15-17 HCP range for 1NT opener, I'd bid 1H, with the intention of raising a 1S response to 2S.

Swith the diamonds with the spade and I'd open, since I have no good response to 1S: 1N would be an underbid and 2N an overbid.

Finally, if you and your partner have the understanding that after 1H - 1S - 2m promises only 3 of the minor, then I'm back to opening 1H.

BTW: If declarer had 15 or 17 HCP, I'd always open 1H and rebid eithre 1N or 2N over a 2S response.

[tfoerster]

Corrected a typo.

tfoerster, on 2015-May-04, 10:14, said:

Assuming a 15-17 HCP range for 1NT opener, I'd bid 1H, with the intention of raising a 1S response to 2S.

Swith the diamonds with the spade and I'd open 1N, since I have no good response to 1S: 1N would be an underbid and 2N an overbid.

Finally, if you and your partner have the understanding that after 1H - 1S - 2m promises only 3 of the minor, then I'm back to opening 1H.

BTW: If declarer had 15 or 17 HCP, I'd always open 1H and rebid eithre 1N or 2N over a 2S response.

[P_Marlowe]

eagles123, on 2015-May-04, 03:08, said:

whats Banzai valuation?

http://www.bridgebas...banzai-metthod/

[ArtK78]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-03, 15:56, said:

In my opinion, 1♥ is clear. This is a suit oriented hand - strong suit and controls. Not only that, it doesn't have the right HCP strength for 1NT. So, anything other than 1♥ is masterminding.

Again, just my opinion.

blackshoe, on 2015-May-03, 18:26, said:

I could go either way. I tend to prefer 1NT, but it would depend to some extent on partner — I have had partners who would hate it if I opened 1NT on this.

Using judgement is not, IMO, masterminding.

Cyberyeti, on 2015-May-03, 19:11, said:

You're allowed to use judgment, K&R gives this hand as 15.75, I'd have rated it as a little over 15 due to the heart intermediates, your suit is 4 certain tricks and a decent chance of 5 opposite 2 or 3 small cards which makes it worth way more than 8 points.

Yes, you are allowed to use judgment. And using judgment is not masterminding.

It is funny the way people grasp at secondary comments. My primary comment was that this was a suit oriented hand due to the makeup and location of its honor strength - very strong 5 card suit, outside Kings and a small doubleton. Just this alone makes this a 1♥ opener rather than a 1NT opener regardless of the point count.

I then pointed out that the point count was insufficient for a 1NT opening in any event. And this is what got the responses.

Now, I don't pretend to know how the algorithm works in the K&R program to assign point-count equivalent valuation for various hands. But I would be willing to state that this hand is worth 15.75 HCP evaluated at a suit contract - presumably in hearts - and it is NOT worth 15.75 HCP evaluated in a NT contract. This hand might be almost totally worthless in a NT contract if a couple of things go badly. But I can virtually guarantee you 4 tricks in a heart contract (hopefully many more if partner has something).

In any event, I will stand by my opinion that this is a suit oriented hand and that opening it 1NT rather than 1♥ is a distortion.

[mikestar13]

nekthen, on 2015-May-04, 04:42, said:

A = 5 down to 10 = 1
add 1 for a 5 card suit

a weak NT is worth 18 - 21 points
a strong NT is 22 - 25 points

This is only for evaluating NT contracts do not use for suit contracts!

So AKJT9 = 13
Kxx = 4

Thus 21 banzai points.

Basically 1 hcp = 1.5 banzai points. so game requires 37 banzai points etc

Axxx, Axx, Axx, xxx is only 15 points nowhere near an opening bid even adding a J does not make it a weak NT

Forget you ever heard of this--getting behind this method was Ron Klinger's worst bridge error (not that he's made a lot of them--on the topic on hand evaluation, his work on LTC is quite good).

Take the example hand -- totally flat but with three aces. If playing weak no trump, this is one, if playing strong notrump open 1♣. Even thinking about passing this hand is a monstrous underbid.

[mikestar13]

ArtK78, on 2015-May-04, 15:25, said:

Yes, you are allowed to use judgment. And using judgment is not masterminding.

It is funny the way people grasp at secondary comments. My primary comment was that this was a suit oriented hand due to the makeup and location of its honor strength - very strong 5 card suit, outside Kings and a small doubleton. Just this alone makes this a 1♥ opener rather than a 1NT opener regardless of the point count.

I then pointed out that the point count was insufficient for a 1NT opening in any event. And this is what got the responses.

Now, I don't pretend to know how the algorithm works in the K&R program to assign point-count equivalent valuation for various hands. But I would be willing to state that this hand is worth 15.75 HCP evaluated at a suit contract - presumably in hearts - and it is NOT worth 15.75 HCP evaluated in a NT contract. This hand might be almost totally worthless in a NT contract if a couple of things go badly. But I can virtually guarantee you 4 tricks in a heart contract (hopefully many more if partner has something).

In any event, I will stand by my opinion that this is a suit oriented hand and that opening it 1NT rather than 1♥ is a distortion.

Agreed, using judgement is not mastering. But consider this possibility: my partner and I have agreed to open 5M-3-3-2 hands 1NT and it is my honest judgement that this hand is sufficiently strong for a 15-17 no trump (or we play a 14-16 strong NT as is played by some 2/1 partnerships). Now is it masterminding to keep my partnership agreement and open 1NT? This is not the same question as "is this hand so suit oriented that I should break agreement and open 1♥ on these cards?". I would do so--I believe it it a lesser lie to say this hand has six hearts than to say it is no trump. oriented.

[masonbarge]

The one big advantage of 1NT is that it impedes the opponents from finding a spade fit. But if opponents have a spade fit, do you really want to be playing in NT?

If partner has, say, 7-8 points and four hearts, and you open 1NT, you could go down in 1NT on a hand where you have a partscore - or conceivably a game - in hearts. If partner has 3 hearts to the Q and 8-10 points with some shape, you could go down in 2NT where 4♥ makes.

If partner is short in hearts, your suit is strong enough to play the misfit in hearts.

You're upping your point count because of your heart suit. I agree with this; however, you also need to upgrade your heart suit to 5.5 cards.

[PhantomSac]

I'd probably bid 1H if red and 1N if white.

The hand is obviously worth 15 points, and with xxx Kx Kxx AKJT9 I would open 1N regardless of anything else. But at mp it is worth it to sometimes miss a game by underbidding a little in order to increase our chance of playing in hearts, as it is pretty likely that with a heart fit hearts will play better. I am not buying the right siding thing that much, Kxx would rather play from partners side as would xxx obviously. It is fairly likely that NT will play better from partners side if that's where we end (and if he has a 1S response we can still play NT from our side... totally fair that if we belong in spades we definitely want to play from our side though).

I think the "tie breaker" to me is how advantageous stealing will be, if we are white and we steal it that is likely to be good but if we are red that could be very bad. Opening 1N and going for 200 with hands like this is one of lifes greatest pains (at least to me) lol.

I def would not fault anyone for opening 1H or 1N at MP though. At imps I think it's terrible to not open 1N.

[eagles123]

thanks all, I was in the 1N camp but great reading all the opinions!

[Cthulhu D]

PhantomSac, on 2015-May-04, 16:39, said:

I'd probably bid 1H if red and 1N if white.

The hand is obviously worth 15 points, and with xxx Kx Kxx AKJT9 I would open 1N regardless of anything else. But at mp it is worth it to sometimes miss a game by underbidding a little in order to increase our chance of playing in hearts, as it is pretty likely that with a heart fit hearts will play better. I am not buying the right siding thing that much, Kxx would rather play from partners side as would xxx obviously. It is fairly likely that NT will play better from partners side if that's where we end (and if he has a 1S response we can still play NT from our side... totally fair that if we belong in spades we definitely want to play from our side though).

Am I correct in saying that if you were playing a 14-16 NT you are opening this 1NT?

[PhantomSac]

Yes

[nekthen]

mikestar13, on 2015-May-04, 15:57, said:

Forget you ever heard of this--getting behind this method was Ron Klinger's worst bridge error (not that he's made a lot of them--on the topic on hand evaluation, his work on LTC is quite good).

Take the example hand -- totally flat but with three aces. If playing weak no trump, this is one, if playing strong notrump open 1♣. Even thinking about passing this hand is a monstrous underbid.

Opening 1N on this hand is inviting a bad score. i gave up opening such hands before i even heard of the banzai count. It has just confirmed my valuation of such hands.

[msjennifer]

One Heart all the time.An international who opened a similar looking hand as 1 NoTrump would have gone down five doubled.However ,he ran to two hearts got doubled and went three shy.Had he opened One Heart his fate would have been much better.

[SteveMoe]

With one partner we agree to never open 1N with a 5-card Major unless we are prepared to accept an invite to game. Here, no.

[case_no_6]

eagles123, on 2015-May-03, 13:08, said:

I thought this was relatively clear but my partner disagreed

from BBF tourny (matchpoints)

---

assume basic 2/1 what would you open this hand with

thanks

Eagles

It really does not matter whether I am playing a 1NT opening to show 15-17 or 12-14 HCP or whether the hand is good enough to upgrade, I am opening this hand 1H.

My heart holding strongly argues that, if partner and I defend, we should begin our campaign by attacking hearts. Bidding NT won't communicate this. Bidding 1H will.

[mike777]

eagles123, on 2015-May-03, 13:08, said:

I thought this was relatively clear but my partner disagreed

from BBF tourny (matchpoints)

---

assume basic 2/1 what would you open this hand with

thanks

Eagles

Always 1nt if within our normal nt range.
Always 1h if outside our normal range.