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How Many NT after 12-14 NT

Poll: How Many NT (35 member(s) have cast votes)

Your Bid

  1. 3N (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. 4N (10 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  3. 5N (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. 6N (16 votes [45.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.71%

  5. 7N (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. Something Else (9 votes [25.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.71%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#41 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-June-07, 18:18

Thanks for providing more detail Mike. My comment about less space overall is simply the maths of bidding theory. Every end sequence (non-forcing call) is a sequence not available to show a hand. If you are clever with the structure you can minimise these sequences and that is what creates the extra space. Of course sometimes having a complete description of one hand via relays is enough to offset that and I am fond of this style of bidding. It tends to be more difficult to optimise the later rounds of natural bidding than relays, although that is less of an issue in wel-designed 1NT structures than for suit auctions.

Looking over the outline you have provided I can think of a few issues but one obvious one for a start. Say I have a hand with 5 hearts and a 4 card minor that wants to look for slam if there is a fit but otherwise stop in 3NT. So I respond 2 and Opener rebids 2. Now if I try 2 to check for the minor fit and hear 3 I cannot look for the heart fit. Alternatively if I bid 3 over 2 I have lost the minor. Playing transfers with second round transfers we can respond 2 followed by 2 (for clubs) or 3 (for diamonds) and find the fit in either suit at the 3 level. There are biggers problems if we also open 1NT offshape and the standard issues, although I think these tend to be overblown, of having the balanced hand describe to the unbalanced one. But in truth I would need to test it for a bit and add more details before making a proper appraisal. As a (very much) non-expert I will not break your record either way though. :)
(-: Zel :-)
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#42 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2014-June-07, 19:22

I like 2 way stayman as well. I recall a great sequence where I had a good 5 card minor , heard that partner did also, and found a very light slam after the 2D force and partner bidding 3 min.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#43 User is offline   BillPatch 

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Posted 2014-June-07, 21:19

View Postkenberg, on 2014-June-05, 16:44, said:

It occurs to me that 1NT-2-2-3 could be played as a four (or more) card club holding. After that:

Opener bids 3NT to deny four card club support. In this case, knowing partner has diamond length may slow you down a bit for a NT slam. Slowing down might be good..
Opener bids anything other than 3NT to show four card support. . . .


Edgar Kaplan proposes a similar setup, but his bid for opener to show less than four card support would be 3, promising at least 4. If responder has both minors he has found his fit in the other minor. See Edgar Kaplan's notes on Kaplan-Sheinwold at the BridgeWorld.com website.
With a holding of 4 +, opener rebids 3NT if both majors are stopped, or his better major.
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#44 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2014-June-08, 15:38

View PostBillPatch, on 2014-June-07, 21:19, said:

Edgar Kaplan proposes a similar setup, but his bid for opener to show less than four card support would be 3, promising at least 4. If responder has both minors he has found his fit in the other minor. See Edgar Kaplan's notes on Kaplan-Sheinwold at the BridgeWorld.com website.
With a holding of 4 +, opener rebids 3NT if both majors are stopped, or his better major.


Great minds think alike. Joking, joking, joking. Did I mention I was joking? I'll take a look. I am still driving hither and yon on vacation and I need a nap, but I will look.

It seems to me that the auction 1NT-2-2-3 and its follow-ups should be discussed by all advanced pairs. "Should be" is definitely not the same as "has been" and so this topic seems very suitable for the I/A forum.

Thanks for the reference.
Ken
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