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Plan the Defence Where is the fifth trick?

#1 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2013-September-14, 09:13


BAM teams; Lead K
South's 1 was 11-15 with five plus spades, and 2NT showed a maximum. You lead the king of diamonds and partner plays the 8 (reverse count), so the diamonds look like they are 4333. Over to you.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#2 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2013-September-14, 09:42

Cash precisely three diamonds and switch to hearts.
I leave the fun to others to find out why.

Rainer Herrmann
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#3 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2013-September-14, 13:23

Nice hand.
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#4 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 02:48

Are we all supposed to be keeping the answer a secret, or can I tell them now that I've worked it out? It took me only 14 more hours than Rainer.

Suppose that declarer has AK109x Kx xxx KJx. If I don't cash three diamonds, he cashes the spade and heart winners, then endplays me by leading a diamond. If I then cash the fourth diamond, he throws a club from hand, wins K, cashes KA to squeeze partner, and then cashes four spades to squeeze me.

Against this layout, having cashed three diamonds, I think I can exit with either a heart or a spade. However, a heart is better because declarer may have something like AKQ9x KJ xxx K10x.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#5 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 04:09

View Postgnasher, on 2013-September-15, 02:48, said:

Are we all supposed to be keeping the answer a secret, or can I tell them now that I've worked it out? It took me only 14 more hours than Rainer.

Suppose that declarer has AK109x Kx xxx KJx. If I don't cash three diamonds, he cashes the spade and heart winners, then endplays me by leading a diamond. If I then cash the fourth diamond, he throws a club from hand, wins K, cashes KA to squeeze partner, and then cashes four spades to squeeze me.

Against this layout, having cashed three diamonds, I think I can exit with either a heart or a spade. However, a heart is better because declarer may have something like AKQ9x KJ xxx K10x.

The actual declarer hand was AKQxx Kx Txx KTx with no other significant pips, and one does indeed need to cash three diamonds and exit with a heart. The reason the club does not work is that declarer ducks the stiff jack that partner needs to have to prevent nine tricks, and he thus corrects the timing for the double squeeze. On your layout, AKQxx KJ xxx KTx, there is no defence of course as declarer always has nine tricks. However if South has AKT9x Kx xxx KTx or the more likely AKT9x Kx xxx KJx, you still have to cash three diamonds and exit with a heart, in the former case because declarer can duck the stiff jack of clubs again.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#6 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 08:58

View Postgnasher, on 2013-September-15, 02:48, said:

Are we all supposed to be keeping the answer a secret, or can I tell them now that I've worked it out? It took me only 14 more hours than Rainer.


It's not very interesting, is it, if the first responder spoils the problem?
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#7 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2013-September-15, 15:05

View Postlamford, on 2013-September-15, 04:09, said:

On your layout, AKQxx KJ xxx KTx, there is no defence of course as declarer always has nine tricks.

You said it was BAM, so if we're not cashing the fourth trick we should still think about how not to concede the tenth.

vampyr said:

It's not very interesting, is it, if the first responder spoils the problem?

It's not very interesting if you read the answer before you want to know it, but why would anyone do that?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#8 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2013-September-18, 10:09

View Postlamford, on 2013-September-15, 04:09, said:

On your layout, AKQxx KJ xxx KTx, there is no defence of course as declarer always has nine tricks.


View Postgnasher, on 2013-September-15, 15:05, said:

You said it was BAM, so if we're not cashing the fourth trick we should still think about how not to concede the tenth.

I understand your point now, but any continuation other than the queen of clubs prevents a tenth trick, as there is no double squeeze, so a heart is not better because of the potential layout you suggested.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#9 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2013-September-18, 15:49

View Postlamford, on 2013-September-15, 04:09, said:

The actual declarer hand was AKQxx Kx Txx KTx with no other significant pips, and one does indeed need to cash three diamonds and exit with a heart. The reason the club does not work is that declarer ducks the stiff jack that partner needs to have to prevent nine tricks, and he thus corrects the timing for the double squeeze. On your layout, AKQxx KJ xxx KTx, there is no defence of course as declarer always has nine tricks. However if South has AKT9x Kx xxx KTx or the more likely AKT9x Kx xxx KJx, you still have to cash three diamonds and exit with a heart, in the former case because declarer can duck the stiff jack of clubs again.


At my table declarer's hand was KQ109x KQ xxx KJx
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#10 User is offline   lamford 

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Posted 2013-September-19, 04:56

View PostFrancesHinden, on 2013-September-18, 15:49, said:

At my table declarer's hand was KQ109x KQ xxx KJx

Very good point, and perhaps the more likely AQT9x KQ xxx KJx or even AQT9x KQ xxx KTx, where you also need to cash the fourth diamond to beat it. However, partner dutifully played her remaining two diamonds upwards on the ace and queen, denying a spade card, and the heart switch was easy.
I prefer to give the lawmakers credit for stating things for a reason - barmar
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#11 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2013-September-19, 05:21

View Postlamford, on 2013-September-19, 04:56, said:

Very good point, and perhaps the more likely AQT9x KQ xxx KJx or even AQT9x KQ xxx KTx, where you also need to cash the fourth diamond to beat it. However, partner dutifully played her remaining two diamonds upwards on the ace and queen, denying a spade card, and the heart switch was easy.

Bridge is a game of incomplete information.
Given the fact that South East are 5-5 in spades and 2-4 in hearts, it requires a parlay for declarer to have 7 tricks in the majors; in this case declarer holding 2 honors doubleton in hearts and both the T and 9.
While such layouts exist worrying about them is not the way to declare or defend successfully.

Rainer Herrmann
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