[Antrax]

hrothgar, on 2013-July-12, 13:25, said:

By flying to Singapore, applying for a visa, and then flying to Bali...

hog is a known troll, so I'm surprised you're taking his suggesting seriously. If they did it and it worked, they would be arrested when returning to Israel. Unless you're suggesting they all emigrate to Indonesia, that seems like a steep price to pay for a Bridge tournament.

[hrothgar]

Antrax, on 2013-July-12, 22:47, said:

hog is a known troll, so I'm surprised you're taking his suggesting seriously. If they did it and it worked, they would be arrested when returning to Israel. Unless you're suggesting they all emigrate to Indonesia, that seems like a steep price to pay for a Bridge tournament.

The Hog is actually a friend of mine, an old bridge partner, and kind enough to host me in Melbourne for the better part of a week a few years back.
With this said and done, I'm not sure why you're bringing him into this conversation.
I was replying to Barmar, who was replying to Mike777, who was making a random comment.

WRT to the substance of your argument, maybe we need to start a serious discussion of the abusive nature of various governments towards their own sports teams.
I can't imagine a situation in which a ports team would be arrested for violating a safety ban that was put in place because of safety issues.

The closest analogy that I can think of is what happened to Bobby Fisher after he ignored a US ban regarding Serbia, however, that restriction had nothing to do with team safety.

[Antrax]

Quote

maybe we need to start a serious discussion of the abusive nature of various governments towards their own sports teams citizens

FYP. Google Israel "Biometric Database" if you're curious, but it's not for this discussion.

[the hog]

Antrax, on 2013-July-12, 22:47, said:

hog is a known troll, so I'm surprised you're taking his suggesting seriously. If they did it and it worked, they would be arrested when returning to Israel. Unless you're suggesting they all emigrate to Indonesia, that seems like a steep price to pay for a Bridge tournament.

And you are a known fool. Richard was not even replying to a post I made. Can you read English?

[Antrax]

Yeah sorry, I confused between you and mike777, as hrothgar concluded correctly.

[barmar]

hrothgar, on 2013-July-13, 05:45, said:

WRT to the substance of your argument, maybe we need to start a serious discussion of the abusive nature of various governments towards their own sports teams.
I can't imagine a situation in which a ports team would be arrested for violating a safety ban that was put in place because of safety issues.

One recurring problem in the thread is analogies to sports teams.

There's a big difference between bridge and popular sports, at least in the minds of the governments. if this were happening to a team involved in a sport that a significant segment of the public watches, it would be in the news. Government officials would have gotten involved much earlier, and if negotiations broke down it would be a major embarassment to both countries.

As much as it pains me to remind you all, bridge is not at that level. No one outside our little community cares if Israel can send a team to Bali, they're not going to make an international incident over it.

[mike777]

barmar, on 2013-July-13, 23:14, said:

One recurring problem in the thread is analogies to sports teams.

There's a big difference between bridge and popular sports, at least in the minds of the governments. if this were happening to a team involved in a sport that a significant segment of the public watches, it would be in the news. Government officials would have gotten involved much earlier, and if negotiations broke down it would be a major embarassment to both countries.

As much as it pains me to remind you all, bridge is not at that level. No one outside our little community cares if Israel can send a team to Bali, they're not going to make an international incident over it.

ok so if the team has the visa and the team feels safe or safe enough they can fly to bali and play....as I raised the point the govt can just shut up.

OTOH if the team members feel they are in real danger I hope they speak up. Sunlight and their words are important on this issue.

Per barmar Israel govt will not , will not make an international incident over it.


btw I agree fully with barmar no one outside our tiny community cares.....and that is ok we care with a passion. I am glad our tiny community debates/argues/discusses this issue.

[helene_t]

Antrax, on 2013-July-13, 21:47, said:

Yeah sorry, I confused between you[the hog] and mike777

ha-ha yes one can easily mix up those two Maybe if you translate a Hog post to Japanese and back to English it will look like something Mike could have written.

[hrothgar]

Interesting development on the Bali front:

There was a significant work slowdown at the Israeli foreign ministry that appears to have come to a head at the same time that the Israeli team withdrew from Bali. The slowdown affected all sorts of foreign ministry functions. For example, Shin Bet - the Israeli internal security agency - was forced to withdraw protection from athletes competing abroad due to the work slow down. In turn, this may be affecting the Israeli's ability to compete in some events.

This was announced the day before the Israeli team was forced to withdraw...

In an amusing parallel, a large number of athletes who were planning on competing in the Maccabiah Games were unable to get entry visa's into Israel because the foreign service didn't have staff available to issue them.

There may be a lot more to this story that we've seen presented...

[Hanoi5]

Well I heard some lady at the club speaking of how they were not issuing visas at one Israel Embassy. Then abother mentioned it was happening in all embassies for they were on a strike. I had not connected those two dots but with hrothgar's post...

[nige1]

paua, on 2013-July-11, 23:01, said:

I think they should rename BridgeWinners.

BridgeWhingers?

[Antrax]

hrothgar, it's not a slowdown, it's a strike. But AFAIK it started after this affair - where have you seen otherwise?

[Cascade]

"07/09/2013 19:06
ISRAEL
Israeli Foreign Ministry's three-month-old strike leaves pilgrims to the Holy Land without visas
Indonesian nuns and Chinese Catholics cannot get visas. International athletes and Jewish pilgrims are blocked. For the restructured Foreign Affairs Ministry, which employs 1,200 people, the new Ministry of Foreign Relations is a "needless and wasteful" creation. To accommodate some new allies, Netanyahu strips some functions form Foreign Affairs."

Looks like the strike began in April

[hrothgar]

Antrax, on 2013-August-01, 21:33, said:

hrothgar, it's not a slowdown, it's a strike. But AFAIK it started after this affair - where have you seen otherwise?

The original coverage that I saw was in haaretz
Thanks for the correction...

As I understand matters, the Israeli government instructed the bridge team to withdraw back in late June / early July...

[Antrax]

No, I checked Cascade's sources (and others) and it seems Israeli media only started reporting it well after it was in effect. April is correct.

[hrothgar]

Antrax, on 2013-August-03, 10:01, said:

No, I checked Cascade's sources (and others) and it seems Israeli media only started reporting it well after it was in effect. April is correct.

thanks for clarifying this...

I'd love to see a decent time line of this whole thing...

[hrothgar]

Interesting new development on the Bali front. The Indonesian consulate in New York is refusing to grant an entry visa to a member of the US Venice Cup team because she holds an Israeli passport. Throughout this sordid little affair I have maintained that the host country (Indonesia) has an obligation to grant visa’s to any player participating in the championship. If the Indonesian consulate is refusing to grant an entry visa to Migry Zur Campanile based on her (previous) nationality, this crosses the line for me.

I’m not sure what the best way to proceed might be. I would hope (and fully expect) that its possible to find a solution by which Campanile is granted a visa. If this doesn’t prove possible, I am torn regarding the appropriate course of action. My immediate reaction is

1. The WBF should not cancel the event at this late date. They have an obligation to all the teams planning to participate. However, Indonesia should receive a “death sentence”. No right to host WBF events for <foo> years. No right to enter teams in WBF competitions for <bar> years.

2. If it is possible to change the venue at this late date without financial cost to the other teams participating, I think that this is a reasonable way to proceed.

3. I don’t think that it is unreasonable for the USBF to decide to boycott the event. Even if the USBF decides to participate, I wouldn’t blame individual members if they decide to proceed. (Nor would I consider it unreasonable if other teams decided to withdraw in protest)

With this said and done, I expect that this whole thing to blow over relatively quickly… The Indonesian government was willing to issue visa’s to the Israeli team. I see no reason why they wouldn’t do the same for Campanile.

[ArtK78]

hrothgar, on 2013-August-07, 08:34, said:

Interesting new development on the Bali front. The Indonesian consulate in New York is refusing to grant an entry visa to a member of the US Venice Cup team because she holds an Israeli passport.

Why does this not surprise me?

[WellSpyder]

ArtK78, on 2013-August-07, 09:15, said:

Why does this not surprise me?

I'm with Hrothgar on this. If the facts are as reported, this feels like it crosses the line for me, too. It all seems very sad.

As far as the USBF's response is concerned, it is not immediately obvious to me what real alternative they have but to boycott the event if this can't be resolved.

[hrothgar]

WellSpyder, on 2013-August-07, 09:51, said:

I'm with Hrothgar on this. If the facts are as reported, this feels like it crosses the line for me, too. It all seems very sad.

As far as the USBF's response is concerned, it is not immediately obvious to me what real alternative they have but to boycott the event if this can't be resolved.

My hope (and sincere expectation) is that all this will be resolved