[wank]

my point was that i think it would be entirely reasonable for Israeli teams to be banned from attending bridge tournaments, sporting events, etc, but that i doubt this case has anything to do with orchestration on even a minor scale, and more to do with administrative inertia and misunderstanding.

[Cyberyeti]

 wank, on 2013-July-10, 06:45, said:

my point was that i think it would be entirely reasonable for Israeli teams to be banned from attending bridge tournaments, sporting events, etc, but that i doubt this case has anything to do with orchestration on even a minor scale, and more to do with administrative inertia and misunderstanding.

If you're going to ban the Israelis, there's a case for banning half the countries on the planet.

I agree with you that administrative inertia is more likely, but I suspect the fact that it was the Israelis meant that the Indonesians might have felt less urgency than had it been the US that had made the same enquiry.

[wank]

well, yes i agree that there are other countries that deserve to be banned - most of them don't play bridge though.

[Trinidad]

I may be wrong, but I thought that Israeli teams simply never participate in any sports event in a country that doesn't recognize Israel. The Israeli government forces the team to withdraw, predictably for "security reasons". (If I look at Hanoi5's list, I can only conclude that some Dutch prisons are less secure than the playing site.)

Did anybody seriously expect that Israel would show up on Bali?

Rik

[Zelandakh]

If you agree to host a major tournament, then you also agree to the rules laid down by the responsible organisation (RO). So no banning of Taiwan from the Chinese olympics, no banning of Israel from the UAE World Cup and no banning of Pakistan from the Indian Commonwealth Games. If a host country decides to change the rules without the authority of the RO then the RO has a responsibility to make sure that this does not succeed, even being ready to switch to another host at short notice in extreme cases. If a host manages to make unauthorised changes of a political nature despite efforts to avoid this and it is too late to cancel, then the RO should send a clear message by imposing some sanction on the host nation. In this case, simply banning Indonesia from the next BB/VC/SB cycle would send the right message that the actions were unacceptable. Offering Israel a place in another competition without sanctioning Indonesia sends precisely the wrong message.

@Rik, there was a WTA tennis event last year in, I think, Doha where an Israeli woman had to play on a court away from spectators due to issues with the organisors. Israeli security staff were on the court at all times. That caused something of an international stir but certainly emphasises the point that Israeli competitors do play in such countries.

[ArtK78]

 wank, on 2013-July-10, 06:45, said:

my point was that i think it would be entirely reasonable for Israeli teams to be banned from attending bridge tournaments, sporting events, etc, but that i doubt this case has anything to do with orchestration on even a minor scale, and more to do with administrative inertia and misunderstanding.

That is what I thought your point was.

Suiffice it to say that I disagree with you as much as is humanly possible. I could use stronger language, but that would just support the inital posts suggesting that this thread should be locked.

[Cyberyeti]

 wank, on 2013-July-10, 07:02, said:

well, yes i agree that there are other countries that deserve to be banned - most of them don't play bridge though.

No, what I'm saying is that if you object to what the Israelis are doing, you could call for the US/UK to be banned for what they did in Iraq, India/China to be banned for the persecution of their muslim minorities, most of the Arab world for the persecution of gay people, where does it stop ? This is why there has to be a VERY high line before you think about banning anybody.

[Antrax]

 Trinidad, on 2013-July-10, 07:26, said:

Did anybody seriously expect that Israel would show up on Bali?

The players did.

[JanM]

 Hanoi5, on 2013-July-09, 17:16, said:

Someone in the bridgewinners thread copied and pasted a link found in the internet of the security in Nusa Dua: (I quote from bridgewinners)

"The following safety & security measures at the Westin Resort Nusa Dua Bali and Bali International Convention Centre relates to normal conditions. If threat levels are raised, the safety & security measures are commensurately increased. Additionally, safety & security levels are increased during high level conferences and as requested by conference/convention planners.

This is a typical example of how inaccuracies spread on the internet. The entire quote on bridgewinners is about the Bali International Convention Centre, which is a small convention center in the Westin Hotel. The World Championships are being held at the Bali Nusa Dua Convention Center, a much larger convention center nearby. I don't know anything about the security provided at the BNDCC (their website says "With a combination of technology and trained security personnel, we can provide high-level security at any events. In case of specific or heightened security requirements, we may arrange dependable resources to call upon.") But I do know that the long list of security arrangements set forth in the quote that is copied here has to do with a different venue.

[wank]

 ArtK78, on 2013-July-10, 07:45, said:

Suiffice it to say that I disagree with you as much as is humanly possible.

obviously my viewpoint is divisive especially to americans who tend to have a much more favourable view of israel than europeans. as i said in my first post, sporting sanctions did however ultimately have a serious impact on south african policy. without commenting on whether you feel israel merits such measures or not, do you feel sport, and games such as bridge, should be used as a political tool?

[mikestar13]

Maybe we should take this to the Water Cooler when we are discussing who is more or less pro-Israel and whether Israel should be banned from any event because of actions (real or imagined) of the Israeli government.

[GreenMan]

 jillybean, on 2013-July-09, 09:19, said:

I'm concerned at this news and alarmed that the WBF see the "solution" as the end of the issue.

This comment is on the article at newinbridge.com:

"Becoming aware of this incident only a few days ago I have written my fellow members of the WBF Executive Council asking that this decision NOT stand. What can be done? The team can be invited as an added team with security and visa issues solved asap. I have written to Eitan and expressed my personal apology and regret. I hope others feel the same. The matter is not over.

Alvin Levy
Executive Vice President, WBF
Board of Directors, ACBL"

So it appears that the WBF is trying to do something.

[Hanoi5]

 JanM, on 2013-July-10, 10:08, said:

This is a typical example of how inaccuracies spread on the internet. The entire quote on bridgewinners is about the Bali International Convention Centre, which is a small convention center in the Westin Hotel. The World Championships are being held at the Bali Nusa Dua Convention Center, a much larger convention center nearby. I don't know anything about the security provided at the BNDCC (their website says "With a combination of technology and trained security personnel, we can provide high-level security at any events. In case of specific or heightened security requirements, we may arrange dependable resources to call upon.") But I do know that the long list of security arrangements set forth in the quote that is copied here has to do with a different venue.

You're very right. In the same link on the internet they have this:

http://www.baliconve...e.php?id=secure

So not only that smaller hotel has all that security, the two islands have all the security in the link and I suppose the BB, VC venue has more security than the smaller one.

[jdeegan]

Bali is a lovely vacation spot, but if they won't allow some of our players to attend or cannot protect their safety, then the WBF needs to relocate the tournament to somewhere that can.

[aguahombre]

Thanks to those of you who have provided sources and quotes about a situation which is of great interest to many people.

The personal opinions/prejudices of people not in a position to influence the outcome are of considerably less interest.

[jillybean]

It appears that his comment was made 5 days ago. Has there been any further communication from the WBF?

 GreenMan, on 2013-July-10, 18:50, said:

This comment is on the article at newinbridge.com:

"Becoming aware of this incident only a few days ago I have written my fellow members of the WBF Executive Council asking that this decision NOT stand. What can be done? The team can be invited as an added team with security and visa issues solved asap. I have written to Eitan and expressed my personal apology and regret. I hope others feel the same. The matter is not over.

Alvin Levy
Executive Vice President, WBF
Board of Directors, ACBL"

So it appears that the WBF is trying to do something.

[Rossoneri]

After seeing a particular "bridge journalist" putting up unsubstantiated claims as "objective truths" repeatedly on Facebook the whole of the past week, I nearly vomitted out my lunch when I saw this thread. Suffice to say hrothgar has summed it up well, and the contents of my lunch will stay firmly in my stomach.

My hope is that the involved parties will work out a reasonable solution as soon as possible and until then, certain people should really just keep their inflammatory and biased opinions to themselves.

[jillybean]

From BW site..

BREAKING NEWS. A few minutes ago, George Jacobs, President of the United States Bridge Federation (USBF), announced the following:

“I am pleased to report that the ugly situation involving the Israeli Women’s Bridge team and the World Bridge Championships being held in Bali, Indonesia, has been brought to a conclusion in a manner that has been judged amenable to all.

To recap: 6 teams from Europe qualified to play in theVenice Cup, Israel among them. The team was rebuffed when seeking visas and security. To be fair, Israel could have flown two Indonesian Nationals to a neutral country, paid for their trips, and secured visas. Israel was willing to do this. But when no answers were forthcoming about security, either from Indonesia or the World Bridge Federation, Israel was forced to withdraw from the event. Their place was taken by Sweden, to whom Israel graciously wished success.

This caused much angst among the bridge community. There were calls for boycotts, moving the World Championships, giving Israel a bye to enter next year’s event etc. It was felt that Israel had been abandoned by the WBF.

Thanks to Al Levy of the ACBL Board of Directors and the WBF Executive Committee, Gianarrigo Rona, President of the WBF, Eitan Levy, President of the Israeli Bridge Federation, and the Bridge Federation of China, a solution was reached.

The Israeli Women’s team is being invited to participate in the International Mind Sport Games being held in Beijing, China in December, 2013. This is a very prestigious event, and while not an equal substitute for the Venice Cup, by any means; it is still a viable recognition of Israel’s plight, which was not of their own doing. There are large cash prizes and there are only 4 teams invited. In addition to Israel, invited teams are the United States, China, and the winner of the upcoming Venice Cup.

At this late date, there was never going to be a perfect solution. Eitan Levy and the Israelis did not want a gift entry into next year’s event, “preferring to earn the right”. This would also have impacted the European Bridge League, which has heretofore not been involved in this drama.

Finding compromises is not easy, but I think those involved worked hard to ease the sting. Israel and Mr. Levy were only looking for an apology and receiving this invitation was more than they were expecting.

I salute Mr. Levy, Mr. Rona, Mr. Levy, the WBF, the CCBA, and most of all the hundreds or thousands of you out there who raised your voices in protest. You were heard and made a difference.

We have learned yet again a valuable lesson. Bridge is apolitical and needs to remain ever so. If we have to hold every World event in Switzerland to insure fairness, so be it. The host country MUST allow all participants or be removed as the host, period. Bridge competitions are good for all and are a valuable contribution to peace worldwide. Again; in fairness to Indonesia, they did not bar Israel, but by refusing to confirm any security measures, they constructively did so.

As long as Israel is satisfied with the outcome, that is good enough for me.

I think today was a good day for bridge.”

[GreenMan]

Well, it's not the best possible result, but it may be the best result possible.

If I were on the WBF council (HAHAHAHA) I'd be saying "Hey, I just looked at the bylaws, and there's nothing that says Indonesia has to be a member ..."

[ArtK78]

So, with the acquiescence of Israel, the WBF has ratified that the host country can essentially choose to bar a country from playing in the World Championships.

Truly a good day for bridge.