[UdcaDenny]

Im playing live with an old man in Chiang Mai. Playing 3NT he puts his cards on the table after an opponent is in on Ace of Club and says the rest is mine. You can see clearly that he has 3 tricks in C, AKQJ in H, A and K in S and Ace of D, totally 10 of the remaining tricks. He has some problem explaing himself verbally but is clear in his head and he thought the claim was so obvious that he didnt say how he would play so TD arrived to the table as one opponent said "what about my K of D" Now the TD didnt give him a chance to say how he would take his tricks but forced him to play low from the Ace of D to give opponent a trick for the K. Reading law 70 on bridgelaws I find this wrong. There it says that TD shud make a fair decision for both parts.

[billw55]

It sounds like the ruling was wrong.

The likely result will be that players will not claim in games run by this director. He may start to wonder why the rounds are taking longer.

[Vampyr]

How many tricks were remaining in the hand? Would a diamond have to be given up at trick 13?

[Bbradley62]

billw55, on 2013-January-16, 08:16, said:

The likely result will be that players will not claim in games run by this director.

Either that, or they'll learn to claim correctly.

[Vampyr]

Bbradley62, on 2013-January-16, 10:20, said:

Either that, or they'll learn to claim correctly.

Correctly? It sounds as if the player in the OP had the rest of the tricks in, essentially, aces.

[Bbradley62]

Vampyr, on 2013-January-16, 10:41, said:

Correctly? It sounds as if the player in the OP had the rest of the tricks in, essentially, aces.

OP refers to "10 of the remaining tricks", indicating that there were more than 10 tricks left to be played, with declarer having 10 clearly-cashable winners. If there were only 10 tricks left, I agree with you...

[pigpenz]

had a hand come up with me in team game on monday
at trick 7 asked who had K♦ after pulling trump and said
it right hand opp has it you get trick and I only make 10 if left hand
opp has it you dont get it and I make 11....AQJXX♦ was in dummy
player complained to me that I should play it out....generally the better the player
the less this is going to happen.


but TD should see that on post declarer by normal play has the rest of the tricks
I dont think its analgous to an outstanding trump being out

[blackshoe]

pigpenz, on 2013-January-16, 11:16, said:

player complained to me that I should play it out....

I hope you said no and called the director.

Yesterday I had two opps make bad claims. I let them both slide. In one case, declarer had Kxx in spades in his hand and Ax on the board. Also on the board was the good K of clubs. He laid down his hand and said "Ace of spades, king of spades, king of clubs". He had no clubs in his hand and no other way to get to the board. The other cards in his hand were trumps. No trumps in dummy. I held Qxx in spades, so I said "if you follow that line I get a spade trick" and faced my hand. He said "obviously I'm going to play to the king of spades first". When I let it go, as he was leaving the table, he thanked me for the top, with a big smile on his face. Thing is, I know this guy, and if I'd called the TD, he would have been really pissed off. I decided it just wasn't worth the hassle.

[billw55]

Bbradley62, on 2013-January-16, 10:58, said:

OP refers to "10 of the remaining tricks", indicating that there were more than 10 tricks left to be played, with declarer having 10 clearly-cashable winners. If there were only 10 tricks left, I agree with you...

Yes, I perceived the situation as declarer (correctly) claiming all remaining tricks. Rereading the OP, I guess that isn't really clear.

Even as a native English speaker, I have sometimes met problems with cashout claims where tricks are left to lose at the end. For some reason, opponents seem to fuss over these more than others. A non-native speaker might not know the word "cashout" or be able to make this clear in words. Nevertheless, I do think the intent is sufficiently clear, and the ruling was wrong even if tricks remained to lose.

[Bbradley62]

blackshoe, on 2013-January-16, 11:26, said:

When I let it go, as he was leaving the table, he thanked me for the top, with a big smile on his face. Thing is, I know this guy, and if I'd called the TD, he would have been really pissed off. I decided it just wasn't worth the hassle.

Sounds like you should call the director next time.

[Vampyr]

billw55, on 2013-January-16, 11:36, said:

Yes, I perceived the situation as declarer (correctly) claiming all remaining tricks. Rereading the OP, I guess that isn't really clear.

I'm not sure either; the OP suggests that there were no other tricks, but the title indicates that there were not.

[billw55]

Vampyr, on 2013-January-16, 11:45, said:

I'm not sure either; the OP suggests that there were no other tricks, but the title indicates that there were not.

Not quite following what you are saying here.

[Vampyr]

billw55, on 2013-January-16, 12:56, said:

Not quite following what you are saying here.

Well, the thread title says "the rest of the tricks", but the OP says "10 of the remaining tricks", as noted by Bbradley62 above. So it is unclear how many tricks actually remained to be played.

[billw55]

edit: ah, ok, never mind I guess.

[lamford]

UdcaDenny, on 2013-January-16, 07:10, said:

Im playing live with an old man in Chiang Mai. Playing 3NT he puts his cards on the table after an opponent is in on Ace of Club and says the rest is mine. You can see clearly that he has 3 tricks in C, AKQJ in H, A and K in S and Ace of D, totally 10 of the remaining tricks. He has some problem explaing himself verbally but is clear in his head and he thought the claim was so obvious that he didnt say how he would play so TD arrived to the table as one opponent said "what about my K of D" Now the TD didnt give him a chance to say how he would take his tricks but forced him to play low from the Ace of D to give opponent a trick for the K. Reading law 70 on bridgelaws I find this wrong. There it says that TD shud make a fair decision for both parts.

I think it is better in any thread to give a full diagram, at least for declarer and dummy. The hand diagram software is easy to use, and you can invent any irrelevant pips.

[UdcaDenny]

Sorry folks if my story wasnt clear enough so I will clarify.
The contract was 3NT and the lead was a small S from Qxxx. Dummy had AJx and declarer had Kx on hand.
He played the J and followed with a small C to his Q. Dummy had K109xx and hand Q8x. On Q the leading
opponent played J from AJ but on third trick was on lead after a second C. So now there were only 10
tricks left and declarer claimed the rest to make 3N+3, totally 12 tricks. TD said if there is a chance
that declarer could be unsure of the remaining tricks and go wrong it shud be played that way. After Ace
of C opponent played a D. Ace was on dummy and declarer had Q on hand but didnt need it. Now TD said he
had to play low from Ace so right hand opponent got for his K. Declarer had AK in S, AKQJ in H, 3 high clubs
and the Ace of D, 10 high tricks. To the story shud be added that the TD was also playing and a competitor to
us and my partner believed his motive was to give us a bad score. Anyway I think for fairness sake he shud give
my partner a chance to tell how he would play the remaining tricks but he didnt.

[blackshoe]

Sheesh. I'm not going to spend the next two hours trying to figure out the card layout.

What cards were in what hands at the beginning of the play? What was led? How many tricks were played? What cards remained?

Write it out: S AKQ H AKQ D AKQ C AKQJ. All four hands. I'll put it in a hand diagram for you.

[Antrax]

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This is the reconstruction based on the story. I don't know how to add play to the diagram, but it seems it was something like:
♠3, J, 7, 2
♣3, 5, Q, J
♣2, A, 4, 6
♦7, contested claim where declarer was forced to play the ♦2, E winning his K.

[Bbradley62]

Antrax, on 2013-January-16, 23:57, said:

This is the reconstruction based on the story.

In post 16, OP says that dummy started with 5 clubs.

[Antrax]

You're right, sorry.

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