[mikeh]

Seems this one-hand thread morphed into a two hand thread.

On the first, if playing mps in a weak field, I'd bid 2N because I expect to play the hand as well or better than my seat-mates, and I don't have any respect for most players bidding so am not too worried about missing slam. I know this sounds condescending, but I suspect that most good players have the same attitude (even if they wouldn't make this call). In a real game, including all imp games, I'd bid 3♣ since I am not often missing a making game via this, which I would have reached via 2N, and I like this hand for slam purposes if partner has decent values. Not to mention that sometimes 5m is better than 3N.

On the second, I bid 4♣. While I am a little light on hcp, I am heavy on controls. Not only are all my controls golden, but they mean that partner will not go crazy on me unless he has well-fitting cards. He will be reluctant to overbid when missing AK A A, so that balances and justifies my overbid on those cards. I can't imagine just bidding 3♠. It's not that I fear missing a lot of games, since I invite heavy and accept light for game purposes, but he won't even consider slam with say Qxxxx Kx xx Axxx opposite 3♠

[cherdano]

lalldonn, on 2012-November-15, 11:08, said:

As for this particular hand I am not saying 2NT is insane but I don't know why you would do it. If partner is passing our bid I'd probably rather be in 3♣ than 2NT. If partner is bidding over it then I don't see what 2NT gained for me.

Over 2NT, partner won't worry about major suit stoppers. And we probably right-sided 3NT.

[JLOGIC]

I would bid 2N but I feel like it's w/e.

[rhm]

lalldonn, on 2012-November-15, 11:08, said:

I learned 3♣ as 16-18, don't know where 15-17 came from. I would rebid 2♣ with 11-15, which of course has a wider range since there is more room to invite over it.

As for this particular hand I am not saying 2NT is insane but I don't know why you would do it. If partner is passing our bid I'd probably rather be in 3♣ than 2NT. If partner is bidding over it then I don't see what 2NT gained for me. It's not like opening 1NT on a slightly worse hand, where I get the advantages of preemption and hiding my shape. They already aren't bidding and they know I have clubs. Is it just a matter of fooling them a little?

If we belong in a partial, 3♣ is likely to be safer than 2NT. Also if we belong in a high level club contract, a 3♣ rebid has better chances of getting us there.
However, both are narrow targets.
Most likely we belong in 3NT, most likely it should be played from this side.
Showing 18-19 gives the right encouragement for a close 3NT without telling opponents much about our hand.
It is not true that they know you have club tricks, even more so if 2NT might bypass a 4 card major.
This will often make the lead and defense against an eventual 3NT more difficult than if we rebid 3♣.
People often lead passive if you show a strong balanced hand.
On average 2NT has more to gain than to loose.

Rainer Herrmann

[lalldonn]

rhm, on 2012-November-16, 06:28, said:

If we belong in a partial, 3♣ is likely to be safer than 2NT. Also if we belong in a high level club contract, a 3♣ rebid has better chances of getting us there.
However, both are narrow targets.
Most likely we belong in 3NT, most likely it should be played from this side.
Showing 18-19 gives the right encouragement for a close 3NT without telling opponents much about our hand.
It is not true that they know you have club tricks, even more so if 2NT might bypass a 4 card major.
This will often make the lead and defense against an eventual 3NT more difficult than if we rebid 3♣.
People often lead passive if you show a strong balanced hand.
On average 2NT has more to gain than to loose.

Rainer Herrmann

If you belong in a club partial, you can not get there after 2NT.
If you belong in a club game or slam, you can get there after 2NT but it's quite difficult.
If you belong in 3NT, you will get there easily after either rebid.

I won't argue strongly. If you are hiding your hand or trying to mildly deceive about it, ok. But I would rather show my hand and increase my chances of reaching the best contract whatever it may be, not be focused on the one most likely contract which I don't yet know I belong in.

[han]

If you can show a strong 3C bid then that's what I'd do. If not I'd bid 2NT because I think that the hand is too good for 3C.

[Hanoi5]

han, on 2012-November-16, 11:42, said:

If you can show a strong 3C bid then that's what I'd do. If not I'd bid 2NT because I think that the hand is too good for 3C.

What does your 3♣ show?