[Fluffy]

♠-
♥Q9863
♦A753
♣Q853


all vul, MPS, RHO deals and opens 2♠, passed around to partner who doubles.

How do you bid on your methods? what about plain lebensohl?

[aguahombre]

Let's not bring in Lebensohl here. 3H shows some values, but is not even forcing. If we want to be in game opposite that balancing double, we need to bid game (or make a forcing natural jump to 4m with a different hand).

We don't seem to have a choice here if we want to explore slam, cooperate for slam, or probe strain....3♠.

If we did judge this hand to be only a 3H (Leben) bid, I doubt it would be passed there this time. Either someone is seriously walking the dog, or partner has a very big hand. She is marked with 4+ spades.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2012-November-11, 08:16

[Fluffy]

partner is going to rebid 3NT if you let him, what next?

[Cyberyeti]

What is ... 2N(leb)-3♣-4♥ as against a direct 4♥ ? One of them should be the slam try.

[mikeh]

We can't commit to hearts with only 5 weak ones, since partner is almost surely marked with spade length and thus may have a big hand without adequate hearts opposite this holding, especially with the spade lead going through him.

I also suspect that the title to the post might play a role in people over-valuing this hand initially. This hand has no slam interest, imo, until partner confirms a big hand.

So I'd bid an encouraging but nf 3♥. I don't expect to play there but, if I do, I suspect that game won't be cold anyway.

I can't imagine cuebidding. If we then bid 4♥, that must surely show a much better hand. void QJxxxx AJxx Qxx looks like a cue followed by 4♥. If you couldn't stomach pass over 2♠, tweak the hand by the least needed to make pass palatable.

Once partner comes to life with 3N, we can infer that his hand is too strong for a balancing 2N and unsuitable, probably for strength reasons, for a balancing 3N. He probably has on the order of a good 20+ hcp and some might put the lower limit even higher.

Now I think we try 4♠. We've limited our hand. We didn't pull to 4m, so we have to be 3 suited.

We can respect a 4N signoff and imo we can and should respect a 5m bid as well. I think if partner can make 6 minor opposite this hand and this sequence, he should bid it.

I think this all makes sense, but as always I fear that I may be allowing my knowledge that I hold these cards to influence my view of how partner should take the auction. After all, it's easy to say: 'what else could it be?' when looking at our hand, but we may be putting partner through the wringer.

[Cyberyeti]

Partner figures to have 4+ spades, can he really not have a big hand ?

Do you really think LHO with 3 spades and a 10-12 count is passing ?

Do you think partner with 4♠ and less than 15 points is doubling ? and with 15 he prob bids 2N.

I'd give great odds on him having >18 and a hand too good to overcall 2N and unsuitable for 3N, so if I bid 2N (this shows the good hand for us other than in clubs) and partner has an unbalanced big hand or huge balanced hand, I'll probably get something other than 3♣ back and will know what's going on.

If I do get 3♣ back, I can bid 3♥ and I've shown something close to my values.

[aguahombre]

think I will go with Hargreaves' 3H NF and some values to start. I got blinded by the fact that I knew CHO was huge because of my spade void, and decided to screw things up with a spade cue, forgetting that she didn't know what I knew by inference.

3H lets her announce her biggie, and then I can cue 4S.

[Phil]

Not a fan of 3♥.

Sometimes LHO has a bunch of spades and no shape and doesn't want to donate 800 at MPs, so I don't think we can reliably put partner on a monster, nor can we 'underbid' his hand for him.

So, 3♠ for me.

[ggwhiz]

I'm bidding 3♠ followed by 4♥ over 3nt.

That should be in the +650 range since they didn't bid 4 of a minor so I'm not bullish on slam unless pard moves. My partner NEVER has a stiff heart. They would have bid 3nt directly with that.

[mikeh]

ggwhiz, on 2012-November-12, 21:06, said:

I'm bidding 3♠ followed by 4♥ over 3nt.

That should be in the +650 range since they didn't bid 4 of a minor so I'm not bullish on slam unless pard moves. My partner NEVER has a stiff heart. They would have bid 3nt directly with that.

So Kx is adequate support?

[ggwhiz]

mikeh, on 2012-November-12, 23:25, said:

So Kx is adequate support?

It is at mp's at least most of the time imo. With only those hearts dbl instead of some number of notrump will have extras, +620 beats +600 in a minor with a chance at +650 even if a minor slam makes but isn't bid.

If pard fits hearts they might be able to move but the 3nt bid makes a minor slam iffy and risks a minus score. I don't want to stall in 5 of a minor and would rather aim for avg+.

[Fluffy]

the full hand in case someone wonders... this time partner had

♠AQJxxx
♥x
♦Qxx
♣J9x

we went for -1700 after he didn't declare very well at the 5 level.

[aguahombre]

Certainly you have shown us the weak 2-bidder's hand by mistake. You wouldn't have started this thread if that were the doubler's hand.

[Fluffy]

why not? when I faced the problem I had no idea that my partner was joking, I was even tempted to redouble the final contract, not that it would change much at MPs

[gwnn]

Fluffy, on 2012-November-14, 03:59, said:

the full hand in case someone wonders... this time partner had

♠AQJxxx
♥x
♦Qxx
♣J9x

we went for -1700 after he didn't declare very well at the 5 level.

Easy pull to 4S by pard imo maybe he can ruff some small hearts in his hand?

In unrelated news, the 3S bidders had it right all along, although not for the reasons they were expecting.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2012-November-14, 03:59, said:

the full hand in case someone wonders... this time partner had

♠AQJxxx
♥x
♦Qxx
♣J9x

we went for -1700 after he didn't declare very well at the 5 level.

I hope you are getting well paid

[Phil]

Fielding a novice client's random bidding? Good stuff Gonzo.

At least partner might PASS my 3♠ cue

[Cyberyeti]

Phil, on 2012-November-14, 10:22, said:

Fielding a novice client's random bidding? Good stuff Gonzo.

At least partner might PASS my 3♠ cue

Or my lebensohl 2N.