[Antrax]

Matchpoints, favourable.
♠K5 ♥JT65 ♦AQ876 ♣86
You deal and pass, LHO bids 3♠ which is passed around back to you. Do you balance?

[mike777]

nonexpert no


lho bid an unfav 3s?


I have Ks?

[Antrax]

Yes and yes.

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2012-June-24, 01:51, said:

Yes and yes.

rats i never get these bal hands right ...you know better

[BunnyGo]

I'll pass. Partner could have made a move with enough that anything is making--I have a near max pass, and he's allowed to bid my hand with any reason.

[Antrax]

mike777, on 2012-June-24, 02:06, said:

rats i never get these bal hands right ...you know better

I'm not sure I follow. You wanted to confirm some aspects of the problem, so yes LHO preempted in spades unfavourable in second position while sitting over my ♠K.

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2012-June-24, 02:35, said:

I'm not sure I follow. You wanted to confirm some aspects of the problem, so yes LHO preempted in spades unfavourable in second position while sitting over my ♠K.

pass but i never get this right

[mr1303]

Pass looks clear. About the only time I'd balance here is holding a stiff/void spade.

[Antrax]

The correct answer (pass) seems pretty well agreed, but why? Assuming 3♠ makes, they're going to get their +140. Is it obvious they're taking us three off or that they find a double if I choose to balance? Or shouldn't I expect 3♠ to make looking at my hand and/or the bidding?

[mike777]

Antrax, on 2012-June-24, 04:08, said:

The correct answer (pass) seems pretty well agreed, but why? Assuming 3♠ makes, they're going to get their +140. Is it obvious they're taking us three off or that they find a double if I choose to balance? Or shouldn't I expect 3♠ to make looking at my hand and/or the bidding?

what is the question again?


what is obvious?

[BunnyGo]

Antrax, on 2012-June-24, 04:08, said:

The correct answer (pass) seems pretty well agreed, but why? Assuming 3♠ makes, they're going to get their +140. Is it obvious they're taking us three off or that they find a double if I choose to balance? Or shouldn't I expect 3♠ to make looking at my hand and/or the bidding?

2 off doubled is already enough for 0 matchpoints on the board.

The general principle is to not lose the board in the bidding. I imagine that either, many people are opening 3S, or I'm getting sufficient punishment from his bad 3S bid (or it makes, and I'll take my 40%). I trust my partner to bid in any situation that I'd want to, and my goal is to not have any boards below 30%, I just try to have more 60-80% boards.

[Antrax]

The question was "should I bid anything or should I pass". Many good sources choose pass, so it's probably the right answer. The followup is trying to understand the thought process, i.e. why bidding is likely to work out poorly.

BG, don't you need a very strong hand to act over 3♠ in the direct seat?

[BunnyGo]

Antrax, on 2012-June-24, 06:26, said:

The question was "should I bid anything or should I pass". Many good sources choose pass, so it's probably the right answer. The followup is trying to understand the thought process, i.e. why bidding is likely to work out poorly.

BG, don't you need a very strong hand to act over 3♠ in the direct seat?

Yes, and no.

When my partner hasn't had a chance to bid, then yes.

When my partner has already passed, I either need strength or shape, but I bid an extra king or ace from my partners hand. I no longer count on her to balance, as she's told me what she hasn't got already.

[gwnn]

Pass, I'm done with this hand. A good rule of thumb is to balance with many hands with a small x and with max hands with a small xx. Kx is a bad holding. it makes it slightly less likely that they make it and also less likely that we make something. Of course, it is again the case that the good and bad scenarios are kind of clear, the question is how do you weigh them? I can only offer you my rule of thumb which says that a singleton is very good and a small xx is pretty good. Kx is just bad for a passed hand balancing action. To make matters worse, we also only have a doubleton club (I really do not think doubling and pulling 4♣ to 4♦ is a good idea). Anyway, despite all this, I don't think x is bad either. After all, we are favourable.

[Antrax]

gwnn, I actually thought Kx makes it more likely they make - it's possible LHO opened on QJTxxxx or so, but I didn't think it very likely. Does that make sense?

[gwnn]

I'm comparing Kx xx in S/C as opposed to xx Kx, say. Kx in spades means that now they need to invest an entry to dummy to finesse through me. It is also possible that a normally worthless holding such as Qx or Jxx from partner becomes a trump trick.

Maybe the general statement was too categorical though (after all, the less hcp I have in spades the more hcp partner will have, but also RHO - it is not so clear cut). But the idea that points in LHO's suit makes our hand worse is definitely valid. The purer our hand is, the purer LHO's hand will be.

[mikl_plkcc]

Clearly a pass to me, I can't stand going to the 4-level with this hand.

[SteveMoe]

I think a pass is very clear. The hand is worth only 7 working points after the ♠ bid on your left. Opponents rate to have a 9 card spade fit (7+ 4/2=9) and we'd need a 9 card red suit fit to justify just down 1. (That makes the hand and 18 trump hand so if they make 9 we rate to make 9 tricks). There is no evidence that there are more trumps than 18 here. Since partner was not strong enough to act over 3♠ it's reaaonable to assume RHO has an entry or two so we won't be scoring the ♠K on offense.

[rmnka447]

Pass.

The problem is that you don't know who has what. All you do know is that pard didn't have enough to overcall or make a takeout Double.

Bidding to a 4 level contract is a complete shot in the dark.

[ggwhiz]

When my pard passes 3♠ on these colours they are either

weak, we go for a number if we bid.

or long in spades, they missed a game when rho didn't like their stiff 2♠?

In the latter case we could go for 800. Passing is a safety play against looking like a complete maroon.