[Free]

mikeh, on 2012-February-22, 13:23, said:

Opener cannot be showing clubs....there is virtually zero chance that the partnership can have a playable club fit at this juncture and, if they do, that they can or should be looking for it. Yes, 6-6 is 'possible' but 6-6 should either not have opened to start with or should bid 3♣ over 2♦ (I mean, shape does count for something) or should give up on clubs. Catering to 6-6 hands in your bidding methods means wasting a lot of energy....when was the last time you held one, and got to open the bidding and the opps didn't interfere?

Opener doesn't have to be 6-6 to have a playable ♣ fit. He can be 5-5 and responder can easily have a 1=4=5=3. So calling it "virtually zero chance" is exaggerated. Whether the partnership should stop looking for the ♣ fit is another story, definitely. Btw, finding this 5-3 fit isn't that hard, because responder can bid 4♣ after opener's signoff in 3NT. It's definitely debatable imo what it should be.

It also depends on your slam methods. For example, if you expect partner to Blacky whenever he doesn't hold all controls (like he did - why didn't he just cue 4♥?), then 4♣ better be cue. If you play Kickback Turbo it's not a problem to play 4♣ natural.

[Poky]

kgr, on 2012-February-23, 10:17, said:

We wondered if 4♦ (iso 4♣) already denied a ♣-control

4♦ doesn't deny anything, just shows diamond fit.
4NT bid was bad.

[kenrexford]

Poky, on 2012-February-23, 13:22, said:

4♦ doesn't deny anything, just shows diamond fit.
4NT bid was bad.

Well, 4♦ denies a club control if playing with Mike and denies 6331 if playing with me. But, otherwise 4♦ is fairly non-committal.

4NT being "bad" is true. But, the question is what to do otherwise. If 4NT is RKCB, and if 4♥ would offer strain, then two plausible courses seem good.


1. Low road. If Responder wants to shoot low, 4♥ is a reasonable call, playable opposite Hxx. As Opener actually has that, 4♥ will be passed and seems like a good contract.


2. High road. If Responder wants to pursue the slam, he bids 4♠, which IMO should be a cue. When Opener cannot cue clubs, this results in an inferior 5♦ contract.

2B. High road, option #2. If 4♠ is by partnership also a plausible strain offer, then Responder has to bid 5♣ as an asking bid, kind of like Last Train, contextually denying a club control and hence requiring one. Again, 5♦ ends up the inferior contract.

[han]

What would people rebid after 1S - 2D - 2S - 3H holding AJ10xxx AQx Kx xx? Any votes for 4H?

[gnasher]

han, on 2012-February-24, 04:27, said:

What would people rebid after 1S - 2D - 2S - 3H holding AJ10xxx AQx Kx xx? Any votes for 4H?

I'd want to bid Fourth Suit Forcing.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

This may be "all wet" :
From my post # 16 ( and both hands post # 20 ) :
South North
1S - 2D ( 1RF )
2S - 3C! ( cheapest-bid new suit forcing, could be artificial )
??
...3D ( 3 cards ♦ ; Edit: denies 4 cards ♥)
...3H ( 4 cards ♥ ; 1st priority )
...3S ( ♣-stop(s), possibly 4 cards ♣ )
..3NT ( no 4h, but have ♥-stop(s) )

so, after ......... - 3C!
3D ( 3 cards ♦ ) - 3H
3S .................. - ??
..........................3NT probably a suggestion to play ( I don't think "Serious" applies here )
.......................... 4C would be a cue, or perhaps last train ?
.......................... 4D would be Minorwood since suit agreement was on 3-level
.......................... 4H would be cue, denying a ♣-Ctrl

so, after .......... - 4H
5D ( no ♣-Ctrl either ) - pass

[phil_20686]

Nobody has yet mentioned what seems to me to be the most obvious meaning: choice of strains in the red suit. 3-3 in the red suits but may wish to play the 4-3 heart rather than the 53 diamond is not uncommon hand type here I think.

The second most obvious meaning, to me, is natural with a weakish 5-5 hand: Axxxx xx x AKJxx, ofc i generally just bid 3N with this type of hand, but there is some variety of style available in the 3H bid, and a lot depends on whether you have some way to set up a GF with 3S. Does 3H always deny 3 spades? Not sure if this makes sense, but if it going to be natural 55 makes a lot more sense than 6-4 or 54.

There is obviously some merit in playing it as a good hand for diamonds aswell.