Help
Qx
xxx
AQ10xxx
QJ
What do you open?
2nd chair all white imps
#1
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 2009-August-31
Posted 2012-January-11, 22:41
Aaron Jones Unit 557
www.longbeachbridge.com
www.longbeachbridge.com
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 16,830
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2012-January-11, 22:47
1d if system permits.
I always think this is a really big deal to discuss just what opening bids promise or do not promise.
I always think this is a really big deal to discuss just what opening bids promise or do not promise.
#3
- Redoubling with gusto
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,712
- Joined: 2009-October-19
- Gender:Male
- Location:Las Vegas, NV
- Interests:Math, Bridge, Beer. Often at the same time.
Posted 2012-January-11, 22:55
1♦ for me too. I've played with people who want to be very sound vul in 2nd chair; that's the only circumstance where I'd open 2♦.
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other. -- Hamman, re: Wolff
#4
- Alchemist
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,764
- Joined: 2004-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Beside a little lake in northwestern Montana
- Interests:Creator of the 'grbbridge' LaTeX typesetting package.
Posted 2012-January-11, 23:03
2DWTP for me. I'm not counting either of the side queens at full value here. I don't open weak twos with two outside stoppers, and in close cases tend to open the hands with 2 defensive tricks with 1 and those without with the weak two.
Apparently I am showing my age, if I am surprised to even see the question posted, and the first two respondents both opened with 1.
Apparently I am showing my age, if I am surprised to even see the question posted, and the first two respondents both opened with 1.
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 16,830
- Joined: 2003-October-07
- Gender:Male
Posted 2012-January-11, 23:45
Siegmund, on 2012-January-11, 23:03, said:
2DWTP for me. I'm not counting either of the side queens at full value here. I don't open weak twos with two outside stoppers, and in close cases tend to open the hands with 2 defensive tricks with 1 and those without with the weak two.
Apparently I am showing my age, if I am surprised to even see the question posted, and the first two respondents both opened with 1.
Apparently I am showing my age, if I am surprised to even see the question posted, and the first two respondents both opened with 1.
2d is just fine if it shows this hand ...of course in expert world, 2d very often does not show this but as I said if system permits.
#6
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2012-January-12, 00:04
Just because it is a very ugly 1 opening with a 6 carder doesnt neccessarily mean it is ok to open weak 2 imo.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,029
- Joined: 2009-February-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:St. George, UT
Posted 2012-January-12, 00:27
1D. The QX and QJ doubletons in the black suits might look like nothings on the surface. but they represent surprises (negative adjustments, if u will) to partner's expectations about the offensive potential that the opponents might have ---total trick theory.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,092
- Joined: 2008-December-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:North Texas, USA
- Interests:Mountain Biking
Posted 2012-January-12, 08:24
2♦.
Hi y'all!
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#9
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2012-January-12, 09:57
I'm closer to opening a 15-17 notrump than to 2♦.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#10
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,627
- Joined: 2009-November-30
- Location:Oxfordshire, England
Posted 2012-January-12, 10:56
3♦! I'm playing with someone who thinks bad things always happen when his partner makes a weak one-level minor-suit opening, so we play 3m as showing 10-14 points and a good 6-card suit to avoid the temptation to open 1m.....
#11
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2012-January-12, 11:30
gnasher, on 2012-January-12, 09:57, said:
I'm closer to opening a 15-17 notrump than to 2♦.
Andy, i am your #1 fan bro
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#12
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 2003-September-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Maryland USA
Posted 2012-January-12, 11:38
in the partnership known as the Misadventures of Rex and Jay this is 2♦. We use 20 plus two quick tricks. Even without demerits for unguarded honors this hand does not quality unless you round the one and a half QT up.
Second seat weak two should be sound since one Opp has passed. Toss up if it our hand or theirs but I am comfortable starting the auction this way.
If 2♦ was not available I would pass or call 1!D depending on the agreed standard for a one bid. E.g 1♦ playing Precision and pass if weak 2♦ banned playing KS
Second seat weak two should be sound since one Opp has passed. Toss up if it our hand or theirs but I am comfortable starting the auction this way.
If 2♦ was not available I would pass or call 1!D depending on the agreed standard for a one bid. E.g 1♦ playing Precision and pass if weak 2♦ banned playing KS
"A stopper is neither weak nor strong but thinking makes it so." H. Kelsey
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 15,488
- Joined: 2003-February-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:Natick, MA
-
Interests:Travel
Cooking
Brewing
Hiking
Posted 2012-January-12, 11:44
My second seat preempts tend to be sound:
Six card suits, two of the top three honors, no voids, no 4 card majors on the side.
The suit quality and the shape are clearly right for a 2♦ opening.
The big question is where the Quacks on the side means that the hand is too strong or has too much defense for a 2♦ opening...
I think that this hand is right on the edge. For me, what tips the scale is the fact that I have Qx in one suit and QJ tight in the other.
For me, this hand simply isn't strong enough to consider 1♦ (let alone 1NT)
I can't bear to pass, so 2♦ it is...
Six card suits, two of the top three honors, no voids, no 4 card majors on the side.
The suit quality and the shape are clearly right for a 2♦ opening.
The big question is where the Quacks on the side means that the hand is too strong or has too much defense for a 2♦ opening...
I think that this hand is right on the edge. For me, what tips the scale is the fact that I have Qx in one suit and QJ tight in the other.
For me, this hand simply isn't strong enough to consider 1♦ (let alone 1NT)
I can't bear to pass, so 2♦ it is...
Alderaan delenda est
#14
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 439
- Joined: 2011-November-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Yorba Linda, CA
- Interests:magic, horseback riding, hiking, camping, F1 racing, bridge, mathematics, finance, teaching
Posted 2012-January-12, 12:43
2♦
BCIII
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
#15
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,568
- Joined: 2006-June-28
- Gender:Male
- Location:Barrington IL USA
- Interests:Backgammon, Bridge, Hockey
Posted 2012-January-12, 13:08
2♦ for me playing with typical SAYC or 2/1 PD's or the random good/expert player from another continent who specifies 5 card majors. I'm fine with 1♦ playing a limited opening system (forcing ♣) or if you've agreed to open a bit light. This hand's pair of dub-quacks justify some downgrade to me and it is OK to be at the tippity top of the range in 2nd seat for 2♦. If pard makes any move over that I am happy to be in game and the suit is quite fine.
#16
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,900
- Joined: 2004-May-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portugal
- Interests:Everything!
Posted 2012-January-12, 13:09
1D. Too much defense.
#17
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,092
- Joined: 2008-December-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:North Texas, USA
- Interests:Mountain Biking
Posted 2012-January-12, 13:18
I understand 1♦ in 1st seat. This is an easy 2♦ opener in 4th or its Andy's 1N opening in 3rd.
However, in 2nd, we are already presumed to be sound. Does the presence of a QJ + Qx really elevate it to a one bid?
However, in 2nd, we are already presumed to be sound. Does the presence of a QJ + Qx really elevate it to a one bid?
Hi y'all!
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#18
- 2011 Poster of The Year winner
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,002
- Joined: 2010-July-08
- Gender:Male
Posted 2012-January-12, 13:39
Opening 2D might be very bad if it's a hand where partner has to decide whether or not to save. It will work well if they are declaring and have to guess some black suits. How bad it will be if it is your hand for 3N depends on your style, if you are a sound preemptor it probably won't work so badly. Likewise, the success of 1D might depend on how light you can open. Personally I don't hate 2D but I would open 1D.
blogging at http://www.justinlall.com
#19
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,247
- Joined: 2010-October-21
- Gender:Male
- Location:Texas
Posted 2012-January-12, 14:32
rduran1216, on 2012-January-11, 22:41, said:
Qx
xxx
AQ10xxx
QJ
What do you open?
xxx
AQ10xxx
QJ
What do you open?
One of my partners insists on "sound" preempts ( 2 of the top 3 honors ), and that is what I have with this 8 loser hand .
So I'll open 2♦ .
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall
" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh
K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
#20
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,661
- Joined: 2011-February-12
Posted 2012-January-12, 17:34
Kx xxx AQTxxx xx
Is that hand really worse than than the hand shown??
if you open this one 1d than by all means open the
given hand 1d. The downside of 1d opener are numerous
1. little defense
2. no preemption on a hand with little defense
3. if auction becomes competitive we are poorly placed
if p has decided to x opps and we never get a chance to
show our dia length.
2d shows a hand with dia length a suit of about this
quality and just about this amount of defense. The
downside of 2d is what to do if p bids 2n. while you
are indeed maximum you have no stopper and 3n is normally
reserved for solid suit. I have to admit if presented
with this problem (p bidding 2n) i would bid 3c and have
my SORRY PARTNER card all ready to go when opps take first
7 club tricks with 6d being cold. 2d also provides a small
amount of preemption. 2d also gets where I live off my chest
and might allow a quick easy decision for p.
If 2d is not available I would opt for 3d before I would bid 1d.
Is that hand really worse than than the hand shown??
if you open this one 1d than by all means open the
given hand 1d. The downside of 1d opener are numerous
1. little defense
2. no preemption on a hand with little defense
3. if auction becomes competitive we are poorly placed
if p has decided to x opps and we never get a chance to
show our dia length.
2d shows a hand with dia length a suit of about this
quality and just about this amount of defense. The
downside of 2d is what to do if p bids 2n. while you
are indeed maximum you have no stopper and 3n is normally
reserved for solid suit. I have to admit if presented
with this problem (p bidding 2n) i would bid 3c and have
my SORRY PARTNER card all ready to go when opps take first
7 club tricks with 6d being cold. 2d also provides a small
amount of preemption. 2d also gets where I live off my chest
and might allow a quick easy decision for p.
If 2d is not available I would opt for 3d before I would bid 1d.