[Phil]

On Bridgewinners, someone suggested switching 3♣ and 3♥ in a Kokish auction. Well, why not go all the way with transfers?

3♣ = H + D
3♦ = H's
3♥ = H + S
3♠ = H + C's

This allows responder to accept and set trump at the three level instead of the four level.

This would have helped Sathya and I today in a speedball (I tweaked it a little in case you decide to look it up to make a point):

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4N could be RKC, but it also could be quantitative. 4♣ could be a cue, but for what? Even if you decide that 4♣ = heart support and 4♦ = spades, wouldn't you rather have formal trump agreement before you start cuebidding so the cue bids actually mean something?

Also, since the side has already named all four suits after a Kokish start, there's no issue to 'right-siding'.

Frankly, I see no downside to this approach, except for the potential memory load.

[bluecalm]

I like it. As to memory load I think it's the same as for the switch. You just have to remember "we show suit with transfers here".

[Mbodell]

Makes total sense to me. Only 3♠ will be a losing position, and even there you have a fair bit off your chest and presumably 3nt is to play, 4♣ sets clubs, and other actions support hearts.

[JLOGIC]

Transfers are pretty standard over switch these days I think. Joe likes to play 3C=hearts, 3D=diamonds, 3H=spades, 3S=clubs, so a combination of transfers and switch. I think switch people like to have 3D over 3C available as a second neg so you can stop in 3H (that's why joe likes it), but it still makes sense to use 3H=spades then.

[JLOGIC]

In any auction if you use switch over transfers then you presumably do so because you think you can use the intermediate step of the 2 under transfer effectively enough that it is better than playing transfers.

EG. 1D (1S), many will play switch here with 2C=hearts, 2H=clubs. You could argue for transfers, but the intermeiate step could be quite useful, something as simple as 2D=min with no fit, and 2H=min with 2+ hearts or something. This could be more useful than being able to bid 2C for diamonds since with a strong raise you might want to show it immediately anyways via a cuebid since the auction is competitive.

[JLOGIC]

Personally, I'm not so sure about completely destroying your auction when you have clubs to gain a little bit in the 3 other cases. I prefer regular kokish but not that much.

I mean, take this hand. Playing 3H shows spades offers a little bit of benefit in that you can actually have natural cuebids as phil says (over 3H-3S, you can cue, over 3H with a heart fit you can bid 4m natural cue since with spades you would bid 3S), but flagging or basically anything will get the job done on this hand. At least with flagging you can set trumps, and you can last train. I really believe that cuebidding is more a quantitative thing deciding how many values you have, and then usually you can keycard. If you have enough values for slam you can cuebid at the 5 level and find out about specific controls if you want to (but tbh just keycarding and not giving away info about controls has a lot more going for it than people act like). The benefit you gain is not that huge imo.

How about the heart 1 suiter hand type? Over 2C 2D 2H 2S 3H, if you have a good hand for hearts you can still cuebid. 3N and 4H are still obviously negative noises about hearts. I am not sure how much you gain by being able to bid 3D showing hearts and allowing partner to bid 3H. It does not seem like that huge of a gain to me.

Compared to how much you are messing up your auction that would normally go 2C 2D 2H 2S 3C and is now going 2C 2D 2H 2S 3S, I dunno, color me unconvinced. (BTW be sure to have the agreement that over that 4D is a good hand for hearts).

[Phil]

Why would a 3♠ response trash an auction when we have clubs? Unless we have a way to have suit agreement artificially (but you'd give up something else too).

I like flag bids only when they are absolutely necessary. Setting trump and then cueing has to be better, and last train in these after a flag sequence just seems like another qualitative 'nudge'.

[rogerclee]

Another rearrangement to think about:

3C: H
3D: H+S
3H: H+C
3S: H+D

Easily remembered as 2-under transfers.

[JLOGIC]

rogerclee, on 2011-December-23, 23:22, said:

Another rearrangement to think about:

3C: H
3D: H+S
3H: H+C
3S: H+D

Easily remembered as 2-under transfers.

I see no gain in this. Being able to set both major suits at the 1 level is not very important compared to being able to set only 1 of them. You effectively are wasting the 4m bids over 3D now, I guess you can play them as natural but that does not seem very useful.

[Free]

Phil, on 2011-December-23, 19:12, said:

3♣ = H + D
3♦ = H's
3♥ = H + S
3♠ = H + C's

That's exactly what I've been playing the last couple of years. Haven't had any problems with it.

[MickyB]

The best rebids here may well depend on what responder's breaks over 2H mean. Rebidding 3S on H+minor is awful if responder might want to bid his spades naturally at this point, but it makes sense to have a break on the previous round to show six spades anyway, to avoid responder bidding 2S and wrong-siding opposite the balanced hand.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on 2011-December-23, 23:22, said:

Another rearrangement to think about:

3C: H
3D: H+S
3H: H+C
3S: H+D

Easily remembered as 2-under transfers.

It seems that bidding the in-between suit could be a further strain probe and denies a primary fit for Opener's 2nd suit. Opener can retreat to 3N with a 5422, bid a fragment, show a 5th card in a side suit, or a 6th heart. All of this seems to function cleaner, if opener already knows responder doesn't have heart support in the 1st place.

It seems some of the root of the problem is the ambiguous 2♠ call over 2♥. Perhaps (thinking out loud) if responder has heart support that it can be shown directly over 2♥ as if responder was responding to the 24+ balanced hand. Here's a possible scheme after 2♥:

2♠ - waiting and denies 3 hearts
2N - Some minor oriented hand (probably 6+ and 3-4 hearts)
3♣ - Effectively puppet stayman, but promising 3-4♥
3♦ - Jacoby
3♥ - Jacoby but with 3♥
3♠ - Possibly a different type of minor oriented hand and 3 hearts.
3N and higher - DNE

This has an effect on the 2♥ - 2♠ - 2N sequences. For instance, puppet (or regular stayman if you want) sequences are clarified, since opener knows responder doesn't have 3+ hearts. A transfer to hearts is largely meaningless now as well, and can be used as something else if you wanted.

My reservations about this whole structure, is that responder is largely in the dark about opener's hand type. What effect this has on actual bidding, I cannot say.