[Wackojack]

---

The 1NT opening bid was 12-14.
I was sitting East and overcalled 2♣(Landy) and partner responded 2♥. We had no agreements on what 2NT, or a minor suit bid would mean now, so I thought I would make the most practical bid of 4♥ and 11 tricks rolled in. Suppose however, partner had started with ♥Q32 instead of ♥732. Or suppose I had started with ♥AKQ109 instead of ♥AK1098. Then 6♥ would be almost a certainty. So how do I make a slam try? Off the top of my head 3 minor to show a singleton and 4 minor to show a void? Then what about game tries? Certainly 3♥ would be a game try and I suppose 2NT, but what it would mean I don't know. Is there an expert consensus here?

[whereagles]

Is there an expert consensus here?

Yes: after opps open 1x, forget about slam.

[Cyberyeti]

What is 4♦ over 2♥ ? Ought to be a shortage, very probably a void and a slam try I would have thought.

[han]

4D would be a splinter, 3C would be natural.

This hand doesn't strike me as a slam try btw.

[han]

How do people feel about 2D instead of 2H btw. If partner then bids 2S (longer spades than hearts), aren't you more likely in a better spot?

[1eyedjack]

At the risk of thread drift, is 2C (Landy) forcing? I always operated on the assumption that the bid is limited by failure to double, and advancer can pass with a misfitting hand and a string of Clubs (not that you would be too bothered on this particular occasion). That may not be standard. What is your rebid on this hand if advancer bids 2D?

[han]

1eyedjack, on 2011-July-04, 06:37, said:

At the risk of thread drift, is 2C (Landy) forcing? I always operated on the assumption that the bid is limited by failure to double, and advancer can pass with a misfitting hand and a string of Clubs (not that you would be too bothered on this particular occasion). That may not be standard. What is your rebid on this hand if advancer bids 2D?

I don't think landy is limited. Certainly with 5-5 in the majors I would hate to have to double first.

[1eyedjack]

han, on 2011-July-04, 06:41, said:

I don't think landy is limited. Certainly with 5-5 in the majors I would hate to have to double first.

I agree with that. But with less extreme (and frankly more likely) distribution, neither would I want to exclude the possibility of playing in 2C, especially as they have not yet started doubling. With very strong and extreme 2-suiters we normally start with a 2N over the 1N, yes?

[Wackojack]

han, on 2011-July-04, 06:34, said:

4D would be a splinter, 3C would be natural.

This hand doesn't strike me as a slam try btw.

Agreed that slam would be extremely unlikely here as partner has passed and we give him 11 for slam to make. (Actually 9 if we take away the Q♦. Nevertheless, against a weak no trump it surely would be right on some hands to Landy and then make a slam try if partner bids one of your your 5 card suits. So if I continue with 3♣, surely better to show this as a singleton rather than a 3 card suit. With 4-4 in the majors I think double would be more appropriate with 15 or more and perhaps also 5431. So a slam try distribution would be 5-5 or more extreme.

Agreed that on this hand, a response of 2♦ from partner looks more likely to find the best major suit fit.

[Zelandakh]

I am with Jack here (first time?) that it is better to put your super-strong 2-suiters somewhere else and keep Landy limited. If you happen to be playing Multi-Landy there's a very convenient spot at the very next station...

In the given situation where 2C can be huge then is there really any need for 2NT as a game try? With an invitational hand of 4 hearts and 5 spades you can bid 2S after all. So using 2NT to start asking questions strikes me as a decent idea in addition to the others being floated here.

[dake50]

Yea, how would one find HQ + SAK + CK or some majority of them?
Put your gimmick mind into warp drive here.
Or just accept we won't invest system after Landy that much.

[peachy]

han, on 2011-July-04, 06:35, said:

How do people feel about 2D instead of 2H btw. If partner then bids 2S (longer spades than hearts), aren't you more likely in a better spot?

For me (and I've seen others) 2D by advancer would show equal length majors 2-2, 3-3, even 4-4

[helene_t]

Well 2♦ doesn't really show anything, it just asks opener to bid his longer suit. If the agreement is that opener bids hearts with equal length then it is fine to bid 2♦ with the West hand.

[wank]

whereagles, on 2011-July-04, 06:08, said:

Is there an expert consensus here?

Yes: after opps open 1x, forget about slam.

downvote....

[Cyberyeti]

han, on 2011-July-04, 06:34, said:

4D would be a splinter, 3C would be natural.

This hand doesn't strike me as a slam try btw.

It didn't occur to me that people would Landy with really big hands, I thought this was about as good as it got.

[whereagles]

wank, on 2011-July-04, 16:31, said:

downvote....

Don't be silly.