[MrAce]

I usually bid game with invitation hands.

But in this example, pd is opening in 3rd seat. I dont know how light others open 3rd seat 1 major, i open as light as 1 level overcall. Considering this i would probably just bid 3♠.

[andy_h]

gwnn, on 2011-June-15, 16:36, said:

I will just bid 4 from here. 3 at non vul.

Agree with this.

[Free]

Considering the vulnerability, I think this is a clear 3♠ bid. Partner is a 3rd seat opening which may be light, so 3♠ definitely shows some values.

With JT6 62 in the Majors I think it's close, but I'd probably still bid 3♠.

[billw55]

Interesting ..

I was thinking that since partner is a third seat opener (which could be pretty trashy), 4♠ should be reserved for a more distributional hand, say four trumps and a stiff somewhere. With a genuine sound opener, won't partner realize that he in effect has a little extra? And certainly with a decent 14-15 count.

[gnasher]

I think that, as an unpassed hand:
- Double followed by 4♠ over partner's 4m shows a different hand-type - something like a balanced hand with a doubleton spade, and not enough in hearts to bid 3NT.
- 4♥ shows a raise with opening values.
- 4♠ is either the top half of an invitational raise, or the sort of hand that would have bid 4♠ (or a weak splinter) in an uncontested auction.

Regarding what to bid with this hand, one of the reasons for jumping to game with a limit raise is to make the opponents guess. When we have only three spades and LHO is a passed hand, it's much less likely that the opponents will consider competing to the five level, so there is less to gain from bidding 4♠.

This post has been edited by gnasher: 2011-June-16, 07:05

[pooltuna]

I prefer 3♠ to show a constructive raise so with a limit raise I have to push to game.

[phil_20686]

I have experimented with using dble here as a "good" 3!s bid. That has worked surprisingly well, although sometimes you miss having a bid to show both minors. However, I have found that to be quite a rare sequence in practice, and not without danger if you are wandering into a misfit in a minor at the 4 level. Would not like to comment on which one is more "optimal".

I think thinking about bidding game here way over values your hand. Three small spades and doubleton heart are both the worst possible holdings.

Partner should be aggressive in response when he has 5431 hands or a 6th spade, but conservative with a balanced hand. I do not think the hand given is as good as Kxxx x ATxxx xxx, in this position. And if you think 3!s is right with this hand you should not be considering anything else with the posted hand.

[gnasher]

I don't think that 3♠ is right with Kxxx x A10xxx xxx.

[pooltuna]

gnasher, on 2011-June-16, 17:36, said:

I don't think that 3♠ is right with Kxxx x A10xxx xxx.

Maybe because it is a limit raise

[pooltuna]

JLOGIC, on 2011-June-15, 18:12, said:

I would bid 3S. With JTx xx I would bid 4S. 3S is usually bid on a constructive raise to bad limit raise (less than a constructive raise passes). 4H is as gwnn described.

WHAT!! YET ANOTHER LURPOA UPVOTE!! (a negative of a negative....etc_

[MrAce]

pooltuna, on 2011-June-16, 18:16, said:

Maybe because it is a limit raise

I think Andy is upto shape of the hand and ability or pottential to produce tricks rather than giving pd some limit range such as "a good raise" "limit raise". At least thats what i thought he meant.

[gnasher]

Yes, I meant that the 4135 hand is a 4♠ bid, regardless of what you call it. With four-card support and a singleton heart, I'd nearly always bid game.

In deciding whether to bid 3♠ or 4♠, you have to take into account what the opponents might do or what they might make. If you bid 3♠ on a 3244 11-count and the next hand bids 4♥, you can double and expect them to go down. If you bid 3♠ on a 4135 shape and the next hand bids 4♥, you're going to bid 4♠ anyway. There's a good chance that this will happen, so it's better to bid 4♠ immediately and make life harder for the opponents.

[gnasher]

Another way to look at it: if you bid only 3♠, you're catering for the possibility that neither side can make ten tricks. With the 3244 11-count that's reasonably likely, but with the prime 4153 7-count it's not.