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It'd be a club for me.
lead problem
#21
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Posted 2011-June-10, 10:19
#22
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Posted 2011-June-10, 10:23
rduran1216, on 2011-June-10, 10:10, said:
a trump lead is devastating.
Devastating. I hope it's not a language/logic thing but, devastatiing to declarer or the defense?
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win
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#23
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Posted 2011-June-10, 15:26
Hanoi5, on 2011-June-10, 10:23, said:
Devastating. I hope it's not a language/logic thing but, devastatiing to declarer or the defense?
declarer has
Q109xx
AQxx
J
Axx
Aaron Jones Unit 557
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Posted 2011-June-10, 16:43
rduran1216, on 2011-June-10, 15:26, said:
declarer has
Q109xx
AQxx
J
Axx
Q109xx
AQxx
J
Axx
Seems to me that both a ♣ lead and a ♥ lead mean one off if that was the layout.
#25
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Posted 2011-June-10, 17:49
If 1Nt is forcing it mean responder can easily have just 4H and extra value wich make a H lead clearcut. If 1Nt is not forcing then i responder is almost sure to have 5H wich mean a club lead is probably as good as a trumps. Your hoping partner got a slow trick in club that will disappear on the 4 or 5th spades.
Just saw that its a passed hand so im leading clubs.
Just saw that its a passed hand so im leading clubs.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#26
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Posted 2011-June-10, 19:54
D-x to partner's D-Kx, back to my D-AQ,
D-out for trump promote or wait for S-K wins.
D-out for trump promote or wait for S-K wins.
#27
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Posted 2011-June-11, 00:41
hatchett, on 2011-June-10, 16:43, said:
Seems to me that both a ♣ lead and a ♥ lead mean one off if that was the layout.
Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes ♦K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.
On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-June-11, 03:34
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:
Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes ♦K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.
On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.
Oh yes didn't notice the strong ♦ pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a ♥ and a ♣ lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the ♦ J
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Posted 2011-June-11, 03:34
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:
Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes ♦K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.
On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.
Oh yes didn't notice the strong ♦ pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a ♥ and a ♣ lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the ♦ J
#30
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Posted 2011-June-11, 03:34
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:
Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes ♦K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.
On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.
Oh yes didn't notice the strong ♦ pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a ♥ and a ♣ lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the ♦ J
#31
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Posted 2011-June-11, 03:44
hatchett, on 2011-June-11, 03:34, said:
Oh yes didn't notice the strong ♦ pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a ♥ and a ♣ lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the ♦ J
I don't see how that helps. As soon as the defence win a spade trick, they'll play another trump. Doesn't that hold declarer to six trumps, two clubs and one diamond?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-June-11, 03:51
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 03:44, said:
I don't see how that helps. As soon as the defence win a spade trick, they'll play another trump. Doesn't that hold declarer to six trumps, two clubs and one diamond?
No. How are you planning to stop declarer building a second ♦ trick?
#33
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Posted 2011-June-11, 03:53
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:
Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes ♦K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.
On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.
Andy....with all due respect, what happens with the defense you suggest, if declarer has the ♠ A and pd ♣ A ?
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#34
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Posted 2011-June-11, 04:28
hatchett, on 2011-June-11, 03:51, said:
No. How are you planning to stop declarer building a second ♦ trick?
I'm not sure exactly what sequence of plays you have in mind, but after ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to the ace, we play ♠K, spade. If he plays another diamond immediately, East ruffs; if he draws the trump first we can cash another spade.
It's true, I think, that declarer can make by playing ♦J, ♣K, ♦K, but I'm not sure why he would play this way.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#35
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Posted 2011-June-11, 04:48
MrAce said:
Andy....with all due respect, what happens with the defense you suggest, if declarer has the ♠A and pd ♣A ?
Partner has had a chance to give suit preference in trumps at trick one, so we might have some idea.
But anyway, if declarer has AQxxx AQxx J xxx and we duck, it's not clear that he's going to make. He might put the king up and take a spade finesse, or even if he runs ♦J he might now play a club.
(Sorry about the nonsense I posted in an earlier version of this post - too early in the morning.)
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-June-11, 05:38
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 04:28, said:
I'm not sure exactly what sequence of plays you have in mind, but after ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to the ace, we play ♠K, spade. If he plays another diamond immediately, East ruffs; if he draws the trump first we can cash another spade.
It's true, I think, that declarer can make by playing ♦J, ♣K, ♦K, but I'm not sure why he would play this way.
It's true, I think, that declarer can make by playing ♦J, ♣K, ♦K, but I'm not sure why he would play this way.
I play your first line, when east ruffs the ♦, he can't play a ♠ without setting up a trick, so win the ♣ in hand, ruff a ♠ and concede a ♦ to west who has no more ♠.
#37
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Posted 2011-June-11, 05:54
OK, I think I understand: you mean trump, ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to A, ♠K, spade ruff, diamond ruffed and overuffed, spade ruff, diamond exit?
I agree that works, but it's also not a very credible line.
I agree that works, but it's also not a very credible line.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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Posted 2011-June-11, 06:06
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 05:54, said:
OK, I think I understand: you mean trump, ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to A, ♠K, spade ruff, diamond ruffed and overuffed, spade ruff, diamond exit?
I agree that works, but it's also not a very credible line.
I agree that works, but it's also not a very credible line.
You can discard a ♣ when the ♦ is ruffed, this is better I think, if East started with three ♠s . I'm not sure why
it's not credible a line you need to set up two additional tricks in either ♠s or ♦s and running the ♦J is not an unreasonable way to start the suit.
#39
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Posted 2011-June-11, 06:48
hatchett, on 2011-June-11, 06:06, said:
You can discard a ♣ when the ♦ is ruffed, this is better I think, if East started with three ♠s .
Maybe we're talking about two different lines? I think you've already lost a spade and ♦A, and you've already thrown your club loser on the second round of diamonds.
Actually, in the position I think you're in (after trump lead, ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to A, ♠K, spade ruff, diamond) there's another, simpler way for declarer to make: just overruff and set the spades up by ruffing, with ♣A as an entry for casing the long one. This is an unusual variation on the "reserve trumps" theme: declarer draws East's trump by leading a loser through him.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#40
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Posted 2011-June-11, 07:21
gnasher, on 2011-June-11, 06:48, said:
Maybe we're talking about two different lines? I think you've already lost a spade and ♦A, and you've already thrown your club loser on the second round of diamonds.
Actually, in the position I think you're in (after trump lead, ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to A, ♠K, spade ruff, diamond) there's another, simpler way for declarer to make: just overruff and set the spades up by ruffing, with ♣A as an entry for casing the long one. This is an unusual variation on the "reserve trumps" theme: declarer draws East's trump by leading a loser through him.
Actually, in the position I think you're in (after trump lead, ♦J, spade, trump, ♦K to A, ♠K, spade ruff, diamond) there's another, simpler way for declarer to make: just overruff and set the spades up by ruffing, with ♣A as an entry for casing the long one. This is an unusual variation on the "reserve trumps" theme: declarer draws East's trump by leading a loser through him.
There are lots of ways you can make, throwing a ♣ when the ♦ is ruffed, leads to a double squeeze, .