[kenrexford]

I hate Minorwood for reasons others have said.

I love Kickback when clubs are trumps (4♦ as RKCB).

When diamonds are trumps, I prefer the cheapest out-of-focus major as RKCB, however. This is usually 4♥ as RKCB, but 4♠ if a heart strain is "in focus." If either major can be in focus, which happens, I hate bridge and want to shoot myself.

[Vampyr]

Phil, on 2012-April-19, 08:50, said:

With minorwood, you can agree trump and ask for aces simultaneously, but not both.

Simultaneously means both. (At the same time).

[mikl_plkcc]

I dislikes kickback very much. I think the suit above trump is better used as a cue-bid.

[rhm]

kenrexford, on 2012-April-19, 11:57, said:

I hate Minorwood for reasons others have said.

I have not heard any reasons, only what others like or dislike.

I am a fan of minorwood, but like any convention it needs a well thought out framework of agreements, in which it can operate effectively.
My reasons I prefer minorwood to kickback and other alternatives are:
Kickback conflicts often with strain searching and with playing jumps in an unbid suit as splinter.
It is too disaster prone for my partnerships and it occurs one bid higher, which is important, because I like to get out at 4NT, when only minors are involved.
Kickback was designed to be able to get out in five of the agreed suit, but not at 4NT.
Minorwood allows to suggest a minor suit slam, for example over 3NT from partner, which is often a real headache, particularly at matchpoints, and still stop at 4NT if the response is unsatisfactory. At least most of the time.
The advantage of making 4NT a possible resting place is the biggest advantage of minorwood, far more important than all the deficiencies I have heard of so far.

4m for me is almost always minorwood with few exceptions:

- It is clear that slam is not an issue, because both hands are limited in strength and distribution by previous bids. (rare)
- We are forced to the 4-level competitively by the opponents or we preempt over opponents interference (more frequent)
- when playing a precision type 2C opening, I play an immediate 4C response as preemptive and an immediate 4D bid as key card, the only sequence where I prefer kickback.

4m is minorwood even if partner has never agreed the suit, provided the minorwood bidder has shown length in the suit before.
I find it of practical importance of being able to set a suit at least temporarily as trumps and ask for key-cards, where partner may be short.
Nothing is more frustrating than battling with partner over strain, when you hold a very long strong suit and know partner will be short in this suit.
Minorwood is simple and effective and has improved my minor suit slam bidding substantially.

On the other side not being able to start a control showing sequence with four of the agreed minor has not turned out to be a big detriment, mainly because control showing sequences should start below four of the agreed suit to be effective.

Rainer Herrmann

[Zelandakh]

I have posted my way of handling 4m bids in these kinds of auctions a few times already but I guess one more time will not hurt. If 4m is bid and m is (now) trumps then it is a slam try (or better). Partner bids the first step to decline the slam try or steps 2 to 5 to accept the slam try and simultaneously show key cards. After a deline then the next step demands a key card response. An exception: if we agreed the minor at the 3 level and were able to make our slam try already and we do not need 4m as a control-showing bid then 4m is Minorwood. This allows for the simplest ever Kickback rule: if 4m+1 can logically be natural then it is, otherwise it is key card asking. Clearly these agreements are too simple to be 100% optimal. Nonetheless I have found they cover quite a lot of ground in practise without a big risk of misunderstandings happening.

[noahapteke]

I feel that Minorwood and Kickback, often create confusion and clog the memory for even above average players so a good idea is to focus on the main that has a high frequency. It is often just a good idea in auctions like 1♣ - 2/3♣ - 4♣, 4D/H/S are Cue Bids and 4NT initiates a keycard sequence.

[WesleyC]

Having a lot of experience with both methods I can strongly recommend Kickback rather than Minorwood.

Both methods require some discussion and agreements and can lead to misunderstanding when you've just incorporated them. However the upside of kickback (being able to bid 4m as a natural slam try NOT a keycard ask) is a lot bigger than the upside of minorwood.

[rhm]

WesleyC, on 2016-May-27, 20:26, said:

Having a lot of experience with both methods I can strongly recommend Kickback rather than Minorwood.

Both methods require some discussion and agreements and can lead to misunderstanding when you've just incorporated them. However the upside of kickback (being able to bid 4m as a natural slam try NOT a keycard ask) is a lot bigger than the upside of minorwood.

Of course all agreements are created equal, except for upsides. Minorwood and Kickback are equally complex and have the same scope for misunderstanding and are equally error prone.
Nothing could be further of the truth and a statistical analysis of recorded top level bidding - not to speak of lower levels - would show.
There must be a reason that the expert on key card ask, Kantar, who has written books on the sole subject of key card asks, never touched Kickback.

Rainer Herrmann

[SteveMoe]

Prefer minorwood to kickback as long as we both know when MW is on an when it is off. We use Kickback for the minors (Redwood) only in specific power auctions where there is no room to show fit before level (e.g. after the 3♠ transfer to 3N and responder bids 4m as a minor suit slam try. 4m+1 is RKB).