[awm]

The poll pretty much says it all. Feel free to add comments below about why you like/don't like the convention, or what your rules are for when 4m is asking keycards.

[aguahombre]

Easier for me to give rules for when 4m is NOT minorwood.
--when it is Texas
--when raising partner's preempt.
--when 4SF has caused 4m to be the first show of fit (other thread)
--when obvious we are playing some other strain (splinters and cues for a major).
--when it is Gerber or Stayman.
--immediate jump to four/1m (whether there is competition or not).
--P/C takeout of pard's 3NT opening.
--when taking out pard's 3-level takeout double.
--After 1NT-3NT* showing worry about major suit stops.
--After 2NT and our MSS 3S.

This post has been edited by aguahombre: 2011-April-11, 13:24

[FrancesHinden]

Very, very limited auctions:

1m - 2m (inverted) - 4m
1NT - 3m (single-suited slam try) -3 any - 4m

That's it.

[Echognome]

Much prefer kickback, but only in a very serious partnership. Otherwise, I'd stick to keycard.

[Quantumcat]

I play 4♦ as keycard for clubs and 4♥ as keycard for diamonds. A jump to 4 of the minor is a slam invite. If partner wants to use keycard he can. 4♥ is only not keycard (in an auction that includes diamonds) if there has not been an opportunity for the person to give preference to hearts.

[mike777]

 Echognome, on 2011-April-11, 14:22, said:

Much prefer kickback, but only in a very serious partnership.

ditto

[chasetb]

I voted for rarely, only over a jump, and that's only for 1 sequence: Over 1NT (assuming 10-12), 4m sets trump and is Minorwood. I much prefer Kickback like the other posters.

[mikl_plkcc]

I'd like the play only the following auctions as minorwood:

After agreement of the suit, an uninterrupted raise to 4 of the minor is minorwood. (An agreement is defined as both partner bid the same suit in a natural way, or after 1NT-transfer to minor)

For example:
1♦-2/3♦
4♦ (minorwood)

1♦-1♥
3♦(GF)-3♠
4♦(about 6♦, strongly want p to play ♦, unless p is void)

1♣-1♦
4♦(preempt)

2NT-3♠(MSS)
4♦(response to MSS)

1NT-2♠(transfer to ♣)
3♣-4♣(minorwood)

1♣-(/)-2♣-(3♠)
4♣(natural)

I don't like kickback because a cue-bid is more useful than any form of blackwood. I try to use cue-bids if I can, only when not enough space I uses blackwood.

[mgoetze]

I don't like 4m as simultaneously fit-showing and ace-asking. I do like 4m as ace-asking when a fit has already been established or at least implied.

And BTW, Quantumcat, you could have just answered "no", that would have been fine.

[jillybean]

 Echognome, on 2011-April-11, 14:22, said:

Much prefer kickback, but only in a very serious partnership. Otherwise, I'd stick to keycard.

 mike777, on 2011-April-11, 18:53, said:

ditto

double ditto

[mgoetze]

 jillybean, on 2012-April-19, 07:13, said:

double ditto

Ok come on K. we all know the "only in a very serious partnership" bit doesn't apply for you.

[jillybean]

My partners expertise must make up for the non-seriousness

[TWO4BRIDGE]

You can play BOTH Minorwood and Kickback for the minors using the following "rules-of-thumb" :

-- If minor suit fit has been agreed at the 3- level ( or below ), then 4m ( Minorwood ) is RKC.

-- If minor suit fit has been first agreed at the 4- level, then Kickback is RKC

Examples:
1C - 2C! ( inverted )
4C! = Minorwood-RKC

1S - 2C! ( 2/1 GF )
3C - 4C! = Minorwood- RKC

1S - 1NT
3C - 4C
4D! = Kickback-RKC

[jillybean]

 TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-April-19, 08:21, said:

You can play BOTH Minorwood and Kickback for the minors using the following "rules-of-thumb" :

-- If minor suit fit has been agreed at the 3- level ( or below ), then 4m ( Minorwood ) is RKC.

-- If minor suit fit has been first agreed at the 4- level, then Kickback is RKC

Examples:
1C - 2C! ( inverted )
4C! = Minorwood-RKC

1S - 2C! ( 2/1 GF )
3C - 4C! = Minorwood- RKC

1S - 1NT
3C - 4C
4D! = Kickback-RKC

I tried this and would get horribly mixed up. Since KB allows you to get out at the 5 level what is the benefit of playing this mixed response structure?

[Phil]

I much prefer kickback. With minorwood, you can agree trump and ask for aces simultaneously, but not both.

[mikeh]

A good friend, fine player and occasional partner of mine loves minorwood, which is the only reason I have actual experience with it. That experience has only served to confirm my dislike for it, previously based solely on theoretical grounds.

All too often, one needs 4m in order to either set trump or, more commonly, to confirm a slam try and start cuebidding. On those hands where we want to ask for keycard below 4N, kickback consumes only one more bid than does minorwood. By using 4m to set cuebidding in motion and kickback one gets the best of both worlds.



One qualification to this: I liked Frances's suggestion...but I don't play in any sufficiently serious partnership that it makes sense to play kickback and a limited form of minorwood...any gain from minorwood in those rare situations would be offset, in my case, by the risk of a forget by one or the other of us.

[Cyberyeti]

2 precise sequences only, 2♣-3♣-4♣ and 2♣-3♦-4♦ otherwise kickback. These sequences we use MW so that 2♣-3♣-4♦ and 2♣-3♦-4♥ can show a solid suit.

[fromageGB]

Similar to Cyberyeti, I use a kickback variant 99% of the time, but find minorwood the way to go in a sequence after a strong 2♣ when opener then announces a 3 suiter (eg 1444). With our simple methods, when 4♥ from responder can be to play, 4♦ is minorwood. In this situation only.

[lalldonn]

Only when someone jumps from 2m to 4m, and we were in a forcing auction prior to the jump. 1m - 2m - 4m, or 1M - 2m - 4m, or 1M - 2c - 2d - 4d are the only auctions that come to mind. But I wouldn't miss it if I didn't have it.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

 jillybean, on 2012-April-19, 08:42, said:

I tried this and would get horribly mixed up. Since KB allows you to get out at the 5 level what is the benefit of playing this mixed response structure?

Another advantage for playing either, besides "getting out" at the 5-level, is getting out in 4NT ( if you have prior agreement ). [ Side note: The King-ask is always "kickback" in Minorwood ] .
For example:
♣ agreed:
4C! ( Minorwood ) - 4H ( 1/4 )
??
.. 4S! ( next step = ♣Q-ask )
..4NT = to play
.. 5C = to play
.. 5D = kickback for ( specific ) Kings

One advantage of playing Minorwood is that you always can have a trump-Q-ask BELOW 5m.

When you play Kickback along with the agreement for 4NT = to play, you may NOT have a trump-Q-ask BELOW 5m.
For example:
♣ agreed:
4D! ( Kickback ) - 4S ( 1/4 )
??
..4NT = to play
.. 5C = to play
.. 5D = ??

Of course if you don't have 4NT = to play, you don't have a problem with a trump Q-ask .