[straube]

With 1H limited opener (5 cds) and 2C a GF relay and GCC legal...

1H-2D=invitational strength
.....P-10-11, four diamonds
.....2H-other
..........P-2 hearts
..........2S?
..........2N?
..........3C-5/5 minors
..........3D-diamonds
.....2S-5/6?
.....2N-GF ask?
.....3C-5 clubs?
.....3D-12, fit
.....3H-?
.....3S-short spade
.....3N-short club

[awm]

How about:

2♥ = minimum without a fit
2♠ = ART diamond raise, if GF then short clubs
.......... 2N = asking (now 3♣ = club shortage GF, 3♦=NF)
.......... 3♣ = two-suiter
.......... 3♦ = forcing at least one round
2NT = GF, no fit, not suitable to other calls
3♣ = GF natural
3♦ = GF diamond raise no shortage
3♥ = GF, strong heart suit
3♠ = GF splinter raise of diamonds

[straube]

You get more mileage out of your 2S than I do. We open 5/6 with 1H so I'd like to be able to show that hand.

I'd noticed that after 1H-1N, it makes more sense for a 2S rebid to be a 2 or 3-way rebid and for 2N to show five spades. Point being that 1H-2D, 2S doesn't have to show 5S/6H though it would be easier to remember.

It looks like you're ok with 1H-2D being nf? I think that's on average a winner. It reminds me of our 1C-1S auctions which are double negatives and not forcing. Occasionally opener has 5 spades and a minimum and passes. On average, it works out very well for us, but in theory we could be missing a game or slam somewhere.

[awm]

straube, on 2011-March-11, 17:02, said:

It looks like you're ok with 1H-2D being nf? I think that's on average a winner. It reminds me of our 1C-1S auctions which are double negatives and not forcing. Occasionally opener has 5 spades and a minimum and passes. On average, it works out very well for us, but in theory we could be missing a game or slam somewhere.

No, I think 2♦ being non-forcing is very bad.

There is a difference between a passable bid that shows a very weak hand (like your 1♣-1♠) and a passable bid that shows an invite. A fit can easily upgrade an invite into a game force. Similarly, if you play 1♣-1♥ as semi-positive (i.e. any 6-8 opposite 15+ or something like that) I think passing 1♥ would be very poor.

[straube]

I ran through 20 hands of 12-13 5D/5C opposite 10-11 5S/4D hands and found that 5+D made about half the time. Of course, some of the 5/5 hands were better than others and if they knew of a fit would have a better chance of bidding or inviting game. Against that, there are the balanced 12-13s that would be happy playing 2D instead of 3D. It's an interesting calculation.

Still have other questions for you. Do you think 1S-2H as 6 hearts, GI is playable?

Also, for the Midchart, I'd be tempted to scrap all of this 1M-2D stuff and play 1S-2H as a constructive raise (9-11) and 1H-2D as a constructive raise (9-11) and 1S-2D as six hearts. 1M-2M is then a simple raise. Do you agree that this is better?

[awm]

straube, on 2011-March-11, 22:19, said:

I ran through 20 hands of 12-13 5D/5C opposite 10-11 5S/4D hands and found that 5+D made about half the time. Of course, some of the 5/5 hands were better than others and if they knew of a fit would have a better chance of bidding or inviting game. Against that, there are the balanced 12-13s that would be happy playing 2D instead of 3D. It's an interesting calculation.

I think this is a fairly serious problem. Keep in mind there are also 6♦ hands where game can make. You have lots of space so there's no reason to think you can't bid the good games while avoiding the bad ones (especially if you have reasonable safety in 4♦, which you should). While it's true that the balanced 12-13s are happy playing 2♦ instead of 3♦, you will make 3♦ a pretty high percentage of the time here anyway and I think you rate to lose more from missing games on the shapely hands than you gain from stopping at the two-level with 23 hcp or so and an 8-card diamond fit.

straube, on 2011-March-11, 22:19, said:

Still have other questions for you. Do you think 1S-2H as 6 hearts, GI is playable?

Also, for the Midchart, I'd be tempted to scrap all of this 1M-2D stuff and play 1S-2H as a constructive raise (9-11) and 1H-2D as a constructive raise (9-11) and 1S-2D as six hearts. 1M-2M is then a simple raise. Do you agree that this is better?

I'm sure 1♠-2♥ as 6 hearts GI is great when it comes up. I know a lot of people who play 1♠-3♥ with this same meaning, and being a level lower should be a win (possibly substantial if the heart suit is not so hot). The question is whether this (fairly uncommon) meaning is actually the best use for the bid. Probably the main (GCC) alternative is 5+♥ GI, which gets you worse results when responder actually has 6♥ and opener has singleton, but might help you on some tough hand types like 5♥+5m invites or even balanced 5♥ invites.

I agree that your mid-chart structure is probably better.

[straube]

So we are probably playing many more Midchart events than GCC and thus seldom using this. Still, it's nice to be prepared and have some use of the 2D response.

I see your point and would probably modify the structure at least a little....

1S-2D, 3D showing 10-11 with a hand that would be useful opposite a 5/5 hand. I still want to roll the dice a little on hands with bad trump or spade wasteage.


1H-2D
.....2H-minimum
..........2S-5/5 minors, 0 or 1 heart
..........2N-6 diamonds, 0 or 1 heart
..........3C- 5/5 minors, 2 hearts
..........3D-6 diamonds, 2 hearts
.....2S-5/6
.....2N-ask
..........3C-5/5
..........3D-6D
..........3H-2 hearts
.....3C-5 clubs
.....3D-10-11, diamond oriented
.....3H-1534
.....3S-4 fit, spade shortness
.....3N-4 fit, club shortness