[phil_20686]

So I play a transfer walsh style, where I open 1d with 5+ diamonds, and 1c with any balanced hand (not a 1NT opener 15-17) without a 5 card suit, and also 18-19 with 5 diamonds. And obviously any hand that would open a natural 1c.

We had the auction:

1♣ P 1♠* (2♥) *Basically transfer to 1NT, see below
?

Where 1S can be either a balanced hand of any strength without a 4 card major, or a game forcing hand with a 4 card major and longer diamonds, but in practice its 6-10 balanced virtually all the time, further since Partner will always have a chance to do something intelligent with a GF hand, we do not need to cater to that hand type. Thus, if we are catering to partner having 6-11 without 4 spades, what is the best meaning of dble here?

Should we play t/o and keep a 4-3 spade fit in the picture? Is it take out into the minors promising at least 4-4? Should 2NT be natural or should it show a hand with 4d-5c. Do we need two take out orientated bids to deal with opener being balanced with t/o shape, and to deal with hands that have opened 1c naturally with say 2-2-4-5 shape? Is a penatly double here likely to pick up the backon very often, afterall I could have an 18-19 NT for my 1c opener, and fancy a piece of 2h. Should I just bid 2s with 5c 4s?

My inclination was that this should be t/o with 4 spades, at the table I had a 4-1-3-5 15 count and felt dble would be t/o to show this hand. Partner disagreed and that conceded 1270 on the board. If you think that dble should be penalty, what would you do with very strong hands on this sequence? Say 4S 5C and a 17 count. Any thoguhts?

[Tcyk]

That is an interesting question especially because I have been working on a similar system. The idea of course is that opening bids other than 1♣ promise an unbalanced hand. With 4=1=3=5 shape, the playing strength of your hand just went up. I think you should have bid 3♣. Your partner has no 4-card major so he has at least 7 cards in the minors. Worse case he could have 3=3=5=2 shape and you will have an 8-card fit in ♦s.

A double at this level means "Do something intelligent." 2♠ is not reasonable because the 4-card hand would have to do any ruffing and you would very likely lose control. With ♥ controls and good minors, 2NT would probably be the best bid. Otherwise, partner should retreat to a minor. The double presents your partner with a difficult problem.

The way I play the system is that the 1♣ opening could also be a 4-4-4-1 hand with a red singleton. I will have to do some work to decide the best use of a double in this type of auction.

[awm]

I'd suggest: (1) X = penalty (2) 2NT = pick your better minor (3) Other calls natural.

This is more like a "bid and raise" type of auction than anything else (1♠ is kind of a raise of opener's minor) so it makes sense to play penalty doubles. A strong balanced hand with a good heart holding is not a particularly unusual thing for opener to hold. On a strong 4135 I think you can make a natural 2♠ bid (partner will usually bid 2NT or 3♣ over this).

[pooltuna]

it means the same as if the auction had gone 1♣ (P) 1NT (2♥). I would assume generally DSIP with xtras.

[fromageGB]

I would think that double should be penalty, with 4 hearts, or a strong balanced hand. You miss out on lucrative scores otherwise. If you have a balanced 18 and responder is balanced, you are going to regret being in 3NT, even red against green.

Given X = penalty, I think 2NT = minors, and 2♠ would probably be 4 card with a heart shortage (if your 1C can have a heart shortage) so that responder can make a sensible rebid. I think 3♥ is the 18+ with minors.

I play something similar, but as we roll more things into the transfer to 1NT it's not quite the same (partner could be invitational with major(s)) but we play X = penalty and 2NT=2254. We would open 1D with a heart(or any non-diamond) shortage.

[Fluffy]

what the tuna said

[Poky]

Double shouldn't be penalty (partner will double to show some 3244 hand).

Double should be takeout:
a) Decent 3145 hand (passes 3m)
b) Decent 3244 14 hcp hand (passes 3m)
c) 18-19 balanced which cannot bid 2NT (follows with 3♥)

2NT should be natural, promising a stopper.

[straube]

I like it as penalty. If it's takeout, partner will never be able to convert it to penalty. If one has to pass with a penalty hand, partner will only sometimes be able to reopen with a double.

[han]

Takeout for me. Yes, this means partner won't convert for penalty.