[Phil]

One partner and I are experimenting with GF Jacoby transfers. They seem to work well and we have not been bit by the hand that wants to play 'exactly' 3M. Some comments / questions:

1. It seems you don't need Texas transfers anymore, since you lose the inference about 2N-3♦-3♥-4♥ since this could be a hand with five hearts simply wishing to bid game. If so, what do you use 2N - 4♦ or 4♥ for? How does it impact your 2N - 4♠ sequence?

2. Does it make sense to play a re-transfer via 2N - 3♦ - 3N - 4♦? If so, how do you show diamonds here?

3. We are playing 2N - 3N as 5♠ - 4♥. 4♠ - 5♥ is shown through 2N - 3♦. If opener has 4-5 spades, opener bids 3♠ over 3♦. We are at a loss how a slammish hand with 5♠ - 4♥ is shown.

4. For now I want to stick with standard puppet stayman, and not try muppet or romex. Would it help much if we switched?

Thanks

[Fluffy]

I've been playing this for years, and the exactly 3M hands will appear, but not enough to notice.

2N-4D I use it as natural, but you can use it as both majors 5-5 also.

Retransfer is a bad idea, you need to be able to show diamonds.

I dropped the 2N-3N artifical bid because of the free double of 3♣ and because the 5♠-4♥ doesn't come very often, and we tend to forget that agreement. We dropped for a while the 5♠-4M hand using just puppet stayman, but then we switched to dropping puppet (even when 5-3 fit was avvaible we never searched for it) and use regular stayman with smolen.

[gwnn]

1. we used

4♣=55 majors slam interest
4♦=55 majors no slam interest
4♥=55 minors
4♠=transfer to clubs (forces 5♣)
5♣=transfer to diamonds (forces 5♦)

I think we used 3NT as serious after an accept showing 3 cards. Also 4m was just a cuebid, but probably it's better as a help suit slam try.

2. good question I think you just don't show diamonds. that could be a little costly.

3. I think smolen is better than these contortions. 3♥=4-5 3♠=4 3NT=5♠. there are better schemes out there but I think this is just fine.

4. yes.

[Free]

1. When playing GF transfers, you can still use 4♦/♥ as transfers. They are used to eiter signoff or (kickback)RKC or voidwood. 2NT-3♦-3♥-4♥ shows mild slam interest in this case. This doesn't change anything to the 2NT-4♠ sequence, whatever it means to you.

2. This depends on what you use the transfer accept for. Does it show fit, or does it deny fit? I guess you show fit by accepting so I think 4♦ should be natural. If you really want to have a retransfer, then you can simply show ♦ by bidding 4♥ (basically switching the natural meanings).

3. If you play GF transfers and you have a slamish hand, you can actually just transfer ♠ and rebid 4♥ if opener denies a ♠ fit. This should be slamish since you'd bid 3NT with weaker hands.

4. Definitely. Muppet (this is reversing the 3NT and 3♥ responses, right?) is very simple imo and gives you an extra call. Btw, what do you use 2NT-3♠ for? Because you can also use this to show any 5♠-4♥ hand (keeping 2NT-3NT natural) and it gives you another chance to show your extras.

[gwnn]

oh yes free good point about 4H showing diamonds. lol at me.

[bluecalm]

Very weak system in my opinion.
It's profitable to run to 3M with basically every weak hand with 5 card major.
Also this:

Quote

We are playing 2N - 3N as 5♠ - 4♥. 4♠ - 5♥

Sucks big time. Whatever tiny gains you may have thanks to this once every 500 hands or w/e that is will be washed away by all the lead direction double and free information given to defenders on your way to 3NT on normal hands.
I spent a lot of time analyzing this and I think even playing puppet stayman is a bit -EV especially at matchpoints (where they are happy to make aggressive lead directional double). Conventions which doesn't allow you to just bash 3nt on 4-3-3-3 5 count are shooting yourself in the foot.

[awm]

A few comments on this:

(1) I agree with Bluecalm that the weak major hands do come up, that you will lose substantially on them, and that your gains from this method will not compensate.

(2) You can improve things somewhat by agreeing that an accept of the transfer denies a fit. Now you are only game forced if there is a fit, or maybe some hands where opener has five cards in the other major. This also allows you to make use of transfer...3M...4M as a mild slam try (presumably you cuebid here if opener shows fit).

(3) Playing romex stayman will substantially improve your auctions. It allows you to have 2NT-3NT natural, and to handle basically all major suit fit-seeking hands. The basic scheme is below:

3♣ = interest in major suit fit; any hand with a 4M, or with a 3M but not 5OM
..... 3♦ = denies holding 4♥ or 5♠
-----> 3♥ shows 4-5♠ and looks for a fit there, no possibility of heart fit
-----> 3♠ shows 5♥+4♠ looking for a fit in either suit
-----> 3NT is natural; if you are very worried about right-siding you can reverse 3♠/3NT here
..... 3♥ = 4-5♥, denies 4♠
-----> no spade fit is possible without a known heart fit; 3♠ here asks about partner's heart length
..... 3♠ = 5♠
-----> now you know your major suit fits
..... 3N = 4/4 in the majors
-----> now you know your major suit fits

[FrancesHinden]

As you no doubt are aware, question (3) is not related to whether your transfers are game forcing or not.

I switched to playing GF transfers about 18 months ago. One thing to remember is that you'll perhaps no longer be playing the same system after a 2NT opening as after an overcall (we don't play the transfer as FG after e.g. (2H) - 2NT, so now we play a completely different system in these auctions. More effective over all, but more to remember.)

I haven't yet found that I am losing by not being able to play in 3M. My bigger concern is the amount of extra information our (mega-complex) system gives about opener's hand. That is much less obvious whether it is an overall gain or loss. I don't think that playing the completing the transfer denies a fit is a good idea. If partner doesn't have a fit, you are often going to do just as well in 2NT as in 3M opposite a very weak hand, particularly if opener has a good 5- (or 6-) card suit. The times being able to 'bail' in 3M gain is when you hit a fit (although not so much of a fit that opener breaks the transfer).

As for the rest of it, the whole 2NT system is interconnected, so you can't really address questions about one part of the system without considering the rest of it. Similarly with your question about muppet Stayman - you can some sequences, but what you do with them depends on what other ways of bidding particular hand types you have.

However, a few comments based on (a simpler version of!) what I play.
- I think you really need a way to get to 4H played by opener. I think "right-siding" is over-rated, but a weak hand with a long suit opposite a strong balanced hand is one time where it can really matter. One solution is what we do, that 2NT - 3D - 3S/NT - 4D is a re-transfer, while 2NT - 3D - 3S/3NT - 4H is a slam try with hearts and diamonds. This doesn't cost you much compared to normal methods, because opener bids 4H over 4D with 3-card support... so you are actually in the same position.
- On a similar basis, we play 2NT - 3D - 3H - 4D as a mild (or better) slam try in hearts; allowing responder to show mild interest below 4H (combined with this we play.... 3NT = clubs, 4C = diamonds but this isn't compulsory)
- If you used to play transfer-and-raise as a slam try, you need another method to show a slam try. We play something popular in England but much less so in the ACBL (I think): 4C = heart slam try, 4D = spade slam try, 4H = club slam try, 4S = diamond slam try (with coded continuations, though these aren't necessary). But this system only works well because we have other ways of showing the 2-suited hands with a 5-card minor... did I say it all fits together?

As for the hands with both majors, we fit all of these in through muppet Stayman (except for 4-5 game only which transfer to hearts). After 2NT - 3C - 3H (no major) - we then play:

3S = relay to 3NT, either passed or followed by 4m natural slam try (usually a 4-card suit) (or followed by some obscure other major suited bids)
3NT = 5-4 majors, NF
4C = 4-5 majors, mild slam try+
4D = 5-4 majors, mild slam try+
4H = 5-5 majors, weak
4S = 5-5 majors, slam force

[if opener shows a major we'll find the fit first]

[FrancesHinden]

p.s. now that the transfers are game forcing, we've found it better to use the transfer break to show 3-5 rather than just to promise 4-card support. Something like, say, AKx Axx xx AKQxx bids 4C after a transfer to either major. Our style is not to open 2NT with a 2=4=2=5, if you open on all these hands you might want the transfer break to show 4-5.

[whereagles]

Muppet is an advance over regular puppet, since it frees up 2NT-3♠ for slammish with minor(s) purposes. Or any other purpose for that matter. Also, you no longer need sequences such as an artificial 2NT-3NT.