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I would cooperate and XX. I don't think partner can ever bid RKC since they've so narrowly defined their hand, they can either bid 4♥ or 4♠ to show a good or bad hand. 4♥ here shouldn't definitely be about hearts I don't think.
Heck, partner could have a lot of hands with 5 (or more) spades too, xxxxx, Kxxxx, x, Ax or something like that, there's nothing that says he only has 4 spades.
Passed hand splinter
#21
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Posted 2011-February-03, 17:42
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.
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#22
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Posted 2011-February-04, 04:58
kgr, on 2011-February-03, 10:50, said:
5♣=No ♥-control; extra's. (Eg ♠K and ♣AK)
Why ♣AK? Isn't ♣A enough when we show extra's? Opener already showed slam interest by redoubling. Can you have something like Kxxx-QJxx-x-Axxx (or even 5 ♠s) for example? 5-level is safe, but you just want to deny a ♥ control and show a ♣ control.
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#23
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Posted 2011-February-04, 07:49
Free, on 2011-February-04, 04:58, said:
Why ♣AK? Isn't ♣A enough when we show extra's? Opener already showed slam interest by redoubling. Can you have something like Kxxx-QJxx-x-Axxx (or even 5 ♠s) for example? 5-level is safe, but you just want to deny a ♥ control and show a ♣ control.
Maybe I'm too much influenced by the actual hand (which I think is not enough to encourage partner too much and bid 5♣) and maybe you are tight that the hand you show is good enough to bid 5♣.
#24
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Posted 2011-February-04, 08:46
Free, on 2011-January-31, 07:13, said:
Your call?
Is partner allowed to hold
♠Kxxxx
♥Kxx
♦x
♣KJxx
oh wait that is an opening hand now-a-days!
You are allowed to be a human being, call XX and over 4♠ call 5♦!edited after I read the voting options
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
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the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#25
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Posted 2011-February-04, 11:03
pooltuna, on 2011-February-04, 08:46, said:
Is partner allowed to hold
♠Kxxxx
♥Kxx
♦x
♣KJxx
oh wait that is an opening hand now-a-days! You are allowed to be a human being, call XX and over 4♠ call 5♦!
edited after I read the voting options
♠Kxxxx
♥Kxx
♦x
♣KJxx
oh wait that is an opening hand now-a-days!
You are allowed to be a human being, call XX and over 4♠ call 5♦!edited after I read the voting options
Yes pd is allowed to hold this, but it is a hand of wish, a wish where KJ ♣ is more valuable than ♣A, a wish where pd holding bad trumps is more valuable than holding good ones.
He is also allowed to hold;
KQxx
KQxx
x
Txxx
KJxx
Qxxx
x
Axxx
KQJx
JTxx
x
Kxxx
QJxx
Kxx
x
Axxxx
When he lays down these hands, we still have play at 5 level, regardless how good or bad our chances are to make, wouldnt u prefer to be in 4 ? In order to make an adventurous move to 5 level here, one must believe the hands that makes slam are more enough than the hands that risks the game.
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Posted 2011-February-04, 11:39
MrAce, on 2011-February-04, 11:03, said:
Yes pd is allowed to hold this, but it is a hand of wish, a wish where KJ ♣ is more valuable than ♣A, a wish where pd holding bad trumps is more valuable than holding good ones.
He is also allowed to hold;
KQxx
KQxx
x
Txxx
KJxx
Qxxx
x
Axxx
KQJx
JTxx
x
Kxxx
QJxx
Kxx
x
Axxxx
When he lays down these hands, we still have play at 5 level, regardless how good or bad our chances are to make, wouldnt u prefer to be in 4 ? In order to make an adventurous move to 5 level here, one must believe the hands that makes slam are more enough than the hands that risks the game.
He is also allowed to hold;
KQxx
KQxx
x
Txxx
KJxx
Qxxx
x
Axxx
KQJx
JTxx
x
Kxxx
QJxx
Kxx
x
Axxxx
When he lays down these hands, we still have play at 5 level, regardless how good or bad our chances are to make, wouldnt u prefer to be in 4 ? In order to make an adventurous move to 5 level here, one must believe the hands that makes slam are more enough than the hands that risks the game.
agree that trying for slam is optimistic but definitely a place to try for a swing hand if you need it
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
#27
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Posted 2011-February-04, 12:53
I had the passed hand splinter: KQxxx-xxxx-J-AT8. Partner ReDoubled on 4♦, I bid 5♣, and partner bid 6♠ thinking I showed ♣AK. Imo 5♣ only shows ♣A.
After the hand, I thought RDbl was a really bad choice. Way too few ♦s and too many ♣s. The passed hand's strength is the ruffing value and opposite Ax you only utilize 1 of the trumps. Also, you need to get rid of a few ♣s and a ♥. There are many perfect hands, but is there a decent way to investigate?
I wasn't perfectly happy with my own choice as well. With 2 keycards, an extra trump, and trump Q I thought I had to do something else than signoff over RDbl (which must show slam interest, otherwise just signoff). 4♥ would've been last train, but what would it mean? It would probably just transfer the problem to partner, and we might end up in slam with 2 or more quick losers in ♥. So I bid 5♣ thinking it just showed a nice offensive hand with a 1st round ♣ control and a problem in ♥. Still, there's no room to figure out if responder has ♣K as well.
All opinions are welcome!
After the hand, I thought RDbl was a really bad choice. Way too few ♦s and too many ♣s. The passed hand's strength is the ruffing value and opposite Ax you only utilize 1 of the trumps. Also, you need to get rid of a few ♣s and a ♥. There are many perfect hands, but is there a decent way to investigate?
I wasn't perfectly happy with my own choice as well. With 2 keycards, an extra trump, and trump Q I thought I had to do something else than signoff over RDbl (which must show slam interest, otherwise just signoff). 4♥ would've been last train, but what would it mean? It would probably just transfer the problem to partner, and we might end up in slam with 2 or more quick losers in ♥. So I bid 5♣ thinking it just showed a nice offensive hand with a 1st round ♣ control and a problem in ♥. Still, there's no room to figure out if responder has ♣K as well.
All opinions are welcome!
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#28
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Posted 2011-February-04, 13:27
Free, on 2011-February-04, 12:53, said:
I had the passed hand splinter: KQxxx-xxxx-J-AT8. Partner ReDoubled on 4♦........
..... Still, there's no room to figure out if responder has ♣K as well.
All opinions are welcome!
..... Still, there's no room to figure out if responder has ♣K as well.
All opinions are welcome!
There is a way to find out about the ♣ K ... by inference :
After Opener's RDBL ( showing the ♦ Ace),
Responder can bid 4S ( denying a ♥ Ctrl )...
Then, Opener goes RKC, even w/o a ♣ Ctrl... because partner must have points there with no red suit features:
4NT - 5S ( 2 + sQ ) = 9 hp... if Responder had the ♣ K as well, he would have Opened !
pass
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#29
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Posted 2011-February-04, 17:16
Opposite a passed hand I am willing to bid 4S to end the auction (hopefully). Opposite an unpassed hand XX to show the ace is my usual system, and I have no complaint with anybody who does the same here.
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Posted 2011-February-05, 05:30
At our table there was no DBL and it did go:
Pass
1S-3D (3D=10-11 with some shortage somewhere)
3H-4D (4=asking; 4D=singleton)
4H-5C
6S
- I think at your table: You have a bad hand (with too many pts in S) and you better bid 4S iso 5C.
- I think that 4H at my table and RDBL at your table was optimistic, but OK.
- I think that 6S at both tables was unnecessary. Both could have bid 5S or 5H. That should be an invite here. Responder would then bid on with SK and CAK.
Pass
1S-3D (3D=10-11 with some shortage somewhere)
3H-4D (4=asking; 4D=singleton)
4H-5C
6S
- I think at your table: You have a bad hand (with too many pts in S) and you better bid 4S iso 5C.
- I think that 4H at my table and RDBL at your table was optimistic, but OK.
- I think that 6S at both tables was unnecessary. Both could have bid 5S or 5H. That should be an invite here. Responder would then bid on with SK and CAK.