[Bbradley62]

Scoring: MP

---

[Phil]

Not the whole 55 black thing again.

Pass or 1♠ please. 1♠ for me.

[inquiry]

Very easy opener. Your choice of 1♠ or 1♣ is up to partnership agreement with 5-5 in the blacks. Of course, I have to admit I would open this hand even if the heart Queen was a small heart.

[aguahombre]

Even if I were on the other side of the 1C vs. 1S debate, I think with this pile I would still go with 1S for the preemption. I can't pass.

[inquiry]

aguahombre, on Aug 21 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

Even if I were on the other side of the 1C vs. 1S debate, I think with this pile I would still go with 1S for the preemption. I can't pass.

I solve the problem differently and preempt it even more!! I open is 2♠ showing 5+♠ and 4+♣ and a weak (minimum) normal opening bid. I got this from Ritong, but don't blame him for how weak I open it...

[gwnn]

1♠

[MickyB]

I recently won a swiss pairs event when our oppo got below avg for bidding and making 6S when 6NT would also make - highly improbable in an EBU pairs event. Eventually, it was pointed out to me that the field was opening 1C and missing their 5-3 spade fit

[aguahombre]

inquiry, on Aug 21 2010, 12:45 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Aug 21 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

Even if I were on the other side of the 1C vs. 1S debate, I think with this pile I would still go with 1S for the preemption.  I can't pass.

I solve the problem differently and preempt it even more!! I open is 2♠ showing 5+♠ and 4+♣ and a weak (minimum) normal opening bid. I got this from Ritong, but don't blame him for how weak I open it...

The thing is: after an allegedly normal 1S opening, if partner has an invite with 6 hearts ----this is a gleeful acceptance. Are you allowed to not use the 2S gadget even if you have it? Or, does that create an inference of a stronger hand if you show clubs after opening 1S?

[Bbradley62]

Ok, so the title was a little misleading, but I had to call it something... This hand came up in an online tournament, with an admittedly weak field. I was surprised that 30 of the 57 players who held this hand passed in first seat. The other 27 opened 1♠. I was hoping to get some insight as to why so many passed, but I guess the "weak field" part will have to suffice...

[inquiry]

aguahombre, on Aug 21 2010, 02:44 PM, said:

inquiry, on Aug 21 2010, 12:45 PM, said:

aguahombre, on Aug 21 2010, 12:26 PM, said:

Even if I were on the other side of the 1C vs. 1S debate, I think with this pile I would still go with 1S for the preemption.  I can't pass.

I solve the problem differently and preempt it even more!! I open is 2♠ showing 5+♠ and 4+♣ and a weak (minimum) normal opening bid. I got this from Ritong, but don't blame him for how weak I open it...

The thing is: after an allegedly normal 1S opening, if partner has an invite with 6 hearts ----this is a gleeful acceptance. Are you allowed to not use the 2S gadget even if you have it? Or, does that create an inference of a stronger hand if you show clubs after opening 1S?

I can ignore the gadget, but if I do, I can never show clubs (as it shows a stronger hand, in the range of 15+ hcp), or I have to open 1♣ and rebid spades...

[ONEferBRID]

Bbradley62, on Aug 21 2010, 11:36 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: N/S Scoring: MP

♠ AT982 ♥ QT2 ♦   ♣ A7632

I have my home grown gadget for "protection" if partner has a GF.

Open 1C with a minimum or sub-minimum 5-5 ( like this one ).

1C - 1 red ( 1D or 1H )
1S - 2 other red! ( 2H! or 2D! = 4th suit GF )
??
a) 2S = either a "difficult rebid" hand, 4-4 and no stop in the 4th suit ( for a 2NT rebid )-- which follows Max Hardy's concept of "least plausible rebid after a 4th suit GF" or a minimum 5-5 in the blacks.

b ) direct 3S jump = 5s/6c hand worthy of a reverse ( strength and shape-wise ).

If (a) 2S, and Opener does not make a 3rd Sp bid, then he has the 4-4 ;
but if he does make it ( delayed 3S ), then he has the minimum 5-5.

[NickRW]

Much too strong to pass for me. Like Ben I have a 2S gadget, but I rate this hand on the strong side for that too. I can be persuaded to open 1C if the spades were poor, but, while they're not great, they're better than the clubs. Ergo 1S.

[Fluffy]

ONEferBRID, on Aug 22 2010, 03:48 PM, said:

Bbradley62, on Aug 21 2010, 11:36 AM, said:

<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> South </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> N/S </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> MP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> AT982 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> QT2 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td>  </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> A7632 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

I have my home grown gadget for "protection" if partner has a GF.

Open 1C with a minimum or sub-minimum 5-5 ( like this one ).

1C - 1 red ( 1D or 1H )
1S - 2 other red! ( 2H! or 2D! = 4th suit GF )
??
a) 2S = either a "difficult rebid" hand, 4-4 and no stop in the 4th suit ( for a 2NT rebid )-- which follows Max Hardy's concept of "least plausible rebid after a 4th suit GF" or a minimum 5-5 in the blacks.

b ) direct 3S jump = 5s/6c hand worthy of a reverse ( strength and shape-wise ).

If (a) 2S, and Opener does not make a 3rd Sp bid, then he has the 4-4 ;
but if he does make it ( delayed 3S ), then he has the minimum 5-5.

This is very fine, but on the real world opponents get into the bidding, partner raises clubs (good luck there to fidn your spade fit) etc.

[bluecalm]

Lol @ 1♣.
It's not reasonable to open 1♣ with hand that weak.
Maybe case could be make for opening 1♣ with strong hands when you can bid spades twice later on but if you can't you will be missing spades fits all the time.
Opening 1♠ has value by itself too, it's higher and more preemptive.
I don't see any advantages of opening 1♣. I mean can someone point as least one significant factor which favors it ? ("They could play in spades if we doesn't open" doesn't count !)

[Flameous]

The point in opening 1♣ is this:

After 1♠ - 2 red, you lack a good rebid, you just have to bid your spades again even though you have 5 card side suit.

1♣ - 1 red - 1♠, now you have showed at least 9 of your cards.

But in 2/1 GF, the first auction is hardly a problem since partner likely bids 2NT waiting and you get to show your clubs.

Also some competitive auctions could give 1♣ opening value, if our hearts were diamonds, you could hear 1♣ (1♥) pass (4♥) or alike, and now you can bid 4♠ to give partner a choice between black suits. If you had opened 1♠, you can't get the clubs in to the picture.

[bluecalm]

Quote

and now you can bid 4♠ to give partner a choice between black suits

This is why I wrote that with stronger hand 1♣ has merits. With this I am not voluntarily bidding at 4 level after pass from partner. I think I don't have enough for:

1♣ 1♥ pass 2♥
2♠

Let alone higher levels...