[dicklont]

Scoring: MP

---

pass - 1♦
1♠ - 1NT
3♠ - pass

We made 9 tricks in spades; north lead from his small doubleton hearts and later got a ruff. The game in hearts was cold.
Can 4♥ be reached in 2/1? Should west open with 1♠?

[kenrexford]

1♠-1NT
2♥-4♥

That works. Or, East could bid 3♥-P-3♠-P-4♥.

Wesat has an opening hand. That solves the problem.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

#1 you could open the hand, given the great
suit quality and that you dont have a rebid
problem, not the worst idea.

#2 if you dont open, I would say, you dont force
to game either (*), than you could use NMF, either
you discover a 6-3 or a 4-4 fit, and you can still
bid 3S the next round, which would not be forcing
given that you are a passed hand

(*) most would

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mike777]

dicklont, on May 17 2008, 04:56 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

pass - 1♦
1♠ - 1NT
3♠ - pass

We made 9 tricks in spades; north lead from his small doubleton hearts and later got a ruff. The game in hearts was cold.
Can 4♥ be reached in 2/1? Should west open with 1♠?

Really great post.


Super


Whatever you play you need to get to 4h after a one spade opening or a Pass opening.

Great hand to discuss with your partner.

[pclayton]

1♠ is automatic for, ahem, most of us. Game is routine after that.

[sfbp]

Zars (I am sure someone, eg Ben, will tell us what the Zar count of that hand is) would definitely tell us it's an opener. The rule of 20 does, too. Didn't I read a discussion on the application of the rule of 18 recently, in connection with the newest Orange Book?

Heresy here: 2D non-game-forcing response (probably the one I'd make playing precision) makes the auction much more natural and even easier to reach 4H. Not very often StdAm beats 2/1 to the punch, but seems like an example.

1♠ - 2♦ -
2♥ - 4♥ -

There is a small problem in 2/1 - a lot of people who thought that their opening bid was a bit "daring" (OP didn't open!!!) might bid 2♠ rather than 2♥ in response to 1NT forcing. Yeah, I've seen it. Probably a good one to look up with the unmentionable tool.

But you are probably right not to bid 2♦ in 2/1 - to h**l that way lieth.

[manudude03]

West has a good 28 Zar hand (would upgrade to 29 for CoV).

So for me:

1S-1NT (forcing)
2H-4H

I prefer to bid my 4 card suits unless they are so bad it's not worth mentioning, say AKJxxx Txxx Ax x I would rebid the spades). Theoretically the chances of conceding a heart ruff in spades is the same as conceding a spade ruff in hearts

[the hog]

kenrexford, on May 18 2008, 05:16 AM, said:

1♠-1NT
2♥-4♥

That works. Or, East could bid 3♥-P-3♠-P-4♥.

Wesat has an opening hand. That solves the problem.

Agree with Ken. Would open , but why bid 3S in your auction?

[neilkaz]

pclayton, on May 17 2008, 06:53 PM, said:

1♠ is automatic for, ahem, most of us. Game is routine after that.

Agreed and hoping we don't loose 2 ♥ and a trick in each black suit in 4♥

[mike777]

manudude03, on May 17 2008, 07:20 PM, said:

West has a good 28 Zar hand (would upgrade to 29 for CoV).

So for me:

1S-1NT (forcing)
2H-4H

I prefer to bid my 4 card suits unless they are so bad it's not worth mentioning, say AKJxxx Txxx Ax x I would rebid the spades). Theoretically the chances of conceding a heart ruff in spades is the same as conceding a spade ruff in hearts

ok I know ...I know but pls if zar 29 or whatever pls explain zar.........yet again.....
Zar is ok...just please, please explain to forum,again, what it is and why we should care. ty.

Please stop if you think everyone knows Zar.....we forget it.

[manudude03]

mike777, on May 18 2008, 02:06 AM, said:

manudude03, on May 17 2008, 07:20 PM, said:

West has a good 28 Zar hand (would upgrade to 29 for CoV).

So for me:

1S-1NT (forcing)
2H-4H

I prefer to bid my 4 card suits unless they are so bad it's not worth mentioning, say AKJxxx Txxx Ax x I would rebid the spades). Theoretically the chances of conceding a heart ruff in spades is the same as conceding a spade ruff in hearts

ok I know ...I know but pls if zar 29 or whatever pls explain zar.........yet again.....
Zar is ok...just please, please explain to forum,again, what it is and why we should care. ty.

Please stop if you think everyone knows Zar.....we forget it.

I suspect you know anyway, but just for the sake of anyone who doesn't, here's the short version:

Count 6 points for an Ace, 4 for a King, 2 for a Queen and 1 for a jack.
Add the total number of cards in the 2 longest suits
Add the difference in length between the longest suit and the shortest suit.
If this comes to 26 or more, open.

As a general guideline, 52 zar points is enough for the 4 level, and take or add 5 per level to get the rest.

For anyone who enjoys reading, download the first PDF here:
http://homepage.mac....ary/GlossZ.html

[andy_h]

kenrexford, on May 18 2008, 08:16 AM, said:

1♠-1NT
2♥-4♥

Yeap.

[Flame]

The player with 6-4 decided that he prefer to play in S even if partner has a H suit, this isnt totally absurd with such a nice S suit. As it happend this didn't work out well.
The normal way is to bid the 4 card on the second round, but i wouldn't kill partner for making this move which could have worked out on some hands for example 4-1 heats split with A of S with the singlton heart.

[skjaeran]

1♠ - 1NT (NF)
2♦ - 4♥ (2♦=trf)

Without transfers west rebid 2♥, else same auction.

Passing the west hand is weird.

[kenrexford]

The_Hog, on May 17 2008, 07:52 PM, said:

kenrexford, on May 18 2008, 05:16 AM, said:

1♠-1NT
2♥-4♥

That works.  Or, East could bid 3♥-P-3♠-P-4♥.

Wesat has an opening hand.  That solves the problem.

Agree with Ken. Would open , but why bid 3S in your auction?

In case Responder has ♠x ♥KJx ♦Axxxx ♣Axxx, or so. Remote, but possible. 3♠, IMO, says "You can bid 4♠ if you raised hearts with three good ones because of a stiff spade, also the reason you did not bid 2/1 GF, because my spades are that good."

[gnasher]

It would be unlucky to go down in 4♠. Even with the heart lead and layout, you may be able to cut communications by ducking the first trick - if North has ♠A they can't now get their ruff. Obviously, this involves a correct guess about the layout of the suit.

You might also be able to set up a diamond to discard a club - win trick 2, ♦A, diamond ruff, top spade. If North is 2-2 in the majors, South has to take this one, so you will now have three more entries for setting up and cashing the long diamond.

Also note that 4♠ will sometimes make when 4♥ goes down - 4♥ is in difficulties when either major is 4-1, whereas 4♠ can survive spades 4-1 (though not if a heart lead induces you to start ruffing diamonds).

[gnasher]

Even opposite 1=4 in the majors 4♠ will often be better. eg x KQxx AKxx xxxx, where coping with club forces in 4♥ will be difficult.