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The frying pan or the fire?

Poll: The frying pan or the fire? (55 member(s) have cast votes)

The frying pan or the fire?

  1. Pass (4 votes [7.27%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.27%

  2. 2 spades (51 votes [92.73%])

    Percentage of vote: 92.73%

  3. Other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 00:17

All white, IMPS

8xx Txx 9xxx xxx

1 on right (could be 2), you pass, 1 on left, pard overcalls 1.
Supp x on right, LHO pulls to 1N. Pard doubles.

Sit or pull?

Do different conditions change your call?
"Phil" on BBO
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#2 User is offline   jchiu 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 00:28

Pull, takeout doubles are meant to be taken out. Fortunately I have three card support and can go grab another Guinness as he plays 2X. Not even close for me. Had I one fewer spade and one more heart, I might chance the licking in 2X.
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#3 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 00:49

Can't really imagine not bidding 2 here. I think they're making 1NT, and I don't think 2 is going for a huge number (or even getting doubled).
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#4 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 01:54

Why would i want to pull ? partner got a 2nt opening with 53 in the Majors.If they make it then its -180 so what.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#5 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 04:14

benlessard, on Feb 11 2008, 02:54 PM, said:

Why would i want to pull ? partner got a 2nt opening with 53 in the Majors.If they make it then its -180 so what.

And if they make overtrick(s) its a bit more. 2S for me, pd's double is takeout anyway and why should she have a 2NT opening?
Is this hand the partner of the strong 4-4 S&D hand?
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#6 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 04:49

Quote

Is this hand the partner of the strong 4-4 S&D hand?


Sure looks that way :)
Told you 1 would work better *g
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 05:57

Pull. We got a long suit, they got a long suit. 1NTX+1 quite possible...........
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#8 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 06:24

benlessard, on Feb 11 2008, 01:54 AM, said:

Why would i want to pull ? partner got a 2nt opening with 53 in the Majors.If they make it then its -180 so what.

A 1S overcall with 20 hcp in a balanced hand?
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#9 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 06:37

agree with the choo, with the caveat that I prefer vodka to Guiness.
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#10 User is offline   TimG 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 08:10

jchiu, on Feb 11 2008, 01:28 AM, said:

Pull, takeout doubles are meant to be taken out.

Is it really takeout?
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#11 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 08:28

TimG, on Feb 11 2008, 04:10 PM, said:

Is it really takeout?

No, it shows cards. It asks me to do something intelligent, which is generally difficult of course, but in this case not. 2.
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#12 User is offline   kfay 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 09:30

I'm pulling this one. Much less of a downside.

Furthermore, I really don't think we're setting 1NT a lot if we CAN set it so we've missed out on a +100... so what?
Kevin Fay
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#13 User is offline   brianshark 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 09:31

1Nx is clearly favourite to make overtricks. The question is whether we can escape for less in 1Nx or 2Sx.

My first impression is to always pull because 2 could make, might not get doubled, opps might bid on and generally it forces the opponents to take their points rather than handing it to them on a plate.

But the more I think about it, the less sure I am.
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#14 User is offline   Edmunte1 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 09:33

2 is obvious
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#15 User is offline   Cascade 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 11:57

We didn't hear what RHO did over partner's double so presumably he passed. The lack of a redouble suggests to me that we have a fair chance of escaping in 2 undoubled.
Wayne Burrows

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#16 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 12:14

The_Hog, on Feb 11 2008, 02:14 AM, said:

Is this hand the partner of the strong 4-4 S&D hand?

No. I can say with authority as I held both the hand in question in this thread and the 4-4 S&D hand.
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#17 User is offline   bhall 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 12:57

Partner has given me a place to run, so I run: 2. Actually, I expect pass will earn -280, while 2 will result in -300.
just plain Bill
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#18 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 14:25

I held this hand and passed. Declarer was +380 I think (Bill's close). Best defense in 2 x'd looks like -500, and -300 is a cinch. I'm not convinced of the plurality, quite frankly. Consider this:

1. I expect pard to hold at least an 18 count or more, mostly due to the fact the opponents have subsided in 1N.

2. If LHO has a trump stack (he held KQJx), it's bad news all around. We are getting nailed in 2 and there's a strong double or triple stopper for our source of tricks. Do you think it's easier to take 7 tricks on defense or 8 tricks on offense? The worse of a position we are in, the better pass looks. If we take 6, 5, 4, or 3 tricks on defense, the score is -180, -280, -380, -480. Say we can take one more additional trick with spades trump, so we would be taking 7, 6, 5 or 4 tricks on offense. The spread is now -100, -300, -500, -800.

3. If LHO has a stopper, but a marginal trump stack, our chances on defense are a lot better, but in fairness, we are less likely to get doubled in 2 as well, but 1N will not be making very often either.

If we are vulnerable, I think this is a real easy pass. If we are white on red, it's an easy pull.
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#19 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 15:10

How can it be take-out if so on what suits ? Opps rate to have a 7 card fit in H so prtner cant be short in H nor does he want to play in H. So either hes got D maybe even C (wich he can bid 2C & 2D) but he doesnt have both minors for sure. So hes got a big balanced hand. I would never X with only 18-19.

Those who think its impossible to have 20-22 and make an overcall would you X and bid 2S with

AKQJx
Axx
QXX
KQ ?

After

(1X)----P-----(1Y)------???

its not balancing and expect partner to be broke when you have 18 +
So why would you want to X 1Nt with 18-19 pts ?
Why would you want to X and bid a new suit with 20-22 pts and a balanced hand ?

Im not saying i expect to get rich by defending 1Nt just that why be sure to get a minus when you might get a +. If they make an overtrick then partner made a mistake not you.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
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#20 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-February-11, 15:11

pclayton, on Feb 11 2008, 03:25 PM, said:

If LHO has a trump stack (he held KQJx), it's bad news all around.

It is funny, this is actually one of the holdings that worried me a lot, but I discarded it as unlikely :).

Let's say I pull to 2S. LHO has to make a 2-level penalty double with his trumps in front of the strong hand while his partner has promised nothing more than an 11-count with 3 hearts. Sure, he might hit this, but I'd say it's sort of unlikely.

Now it comes back to RHO, and while I bet he has extras, he can't really double for penalty without any trumps and partner having promised little more than Kxx. He has to either pass or take us off the hook by bidding. He might even not have extras, in which case he has an obvious pass.
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